HDMI

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augusthouse
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:39 am
Location: New South Wales Australia

HDMI

Post by augusthouse »

Just curious about the HDMI output of some recent model cameras and wanted to ask if there are any recomendations/considerations in regard to HDMI enabled monitors.

I've seen the expensive pro monitors for use in-the field such as http://smallhd.com/dp1/index.php but I am specifically looking at using a standard HDMI enabled monitor in-house with a Canon 50D.

I've been trialling a Dell SP2309W.

Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

NikonUser
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:03 am
Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

Post by NikonUser »

I use a Sharp LC-19SB27UT (it's a 19" monitor) with my Nikon D90 and a HDMI cable. I'm very happy with it. Useless other than with HDMI.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

g4lab
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 11:07 am

Post by g4lab »

Not to hijack this thread but is anyone aware of problems caused for the sensor chip when the HDMI Live View is used regularly.

A friend of mine told me his local (Denver) camera store refused to sell him a Nikon model with HDMI output because he said he was going to have it on most of the time (that is during use on a Wild M420 Macrosope) They claimed it would overheat the chip and he would end up with a warranty problem that they supposedly did not want.

Another Wild friend of mine just sent me a picture of his outfit using "an Ikan five inch monitor" He is a member here perhaps he would post a picture or comment on his experience with that monitor.

http://www.ikancorp.com/productListing.php?CategoryID=2
Last edited by g4lab on Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cactusdave
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Location: Bromley, Kent, UK

Post by Cactusdave »

Quite a few monitors have a DVI input and it is possible to buy HDMI to DVI adapters.
Leitz Ortholux 1, Zeiss standard, Nikon Diaphot inverted, Canon photographic gear

augusthouse
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:39 am
Location: New South Wales Australia

Post by augusthouse »

I've noticed there are many smaller monitors out there ranging in price from $39.99 and peaking at about $990.00. Obviously, not all monitors are created equal.

Many of the earlier high-end versions and the cheap low-end versions lack an HDMI input.

HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Gene,
If you come across any more info on that overheating chip report, could you let us know. On the 50D the Live View mode cuts out after a certain period of time whether using the camera LCD or an external HDMI monitor.

Dave,
I have an HDMI to DVI adapter; but don't use it much. One of the nice things about HDMI is the lightweight plugs/cables.

NU,
What's the picture and the colour reproduction like with the Sharp 19". Do you make use of the D90 Live View Mode? Is this a separate monitor or is it also attached to your PC?

Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

NikonUser
Posts: 2654
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:03 am
Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

Post by NikonUser »

Craig wrote
"NU,
What's the picture and the colour reproduction like with the Sharp 19". Do you make use of the D90 Live View Mode? Is this a separate monitor or is it also attached to your PC?
"

Craig:
I rarely use live view only to locate an object when using a 40x or a 60x objective. As I exclusively use flash I leave the camera setting for 'flash' and use a desk lamp in live view which results in a very warm image but good enough to find the specimen.

My main use of the monitor is to find the first frame, for a stack, and to stop shooting when I reach the last in-focus frame (actually a couple of frames before the first in-focus and a couple after the last in-focus).

Colour seems fine for images taken with flash and resolution is superb. I have no difficulty in seeing individual hairs and eye facets in an image of a complete fly.

Incidentally, this monitor is actually a television and as such is not connected to a computer.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

augusthouse
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:39 am
Location: New South Wales Australia

Post by augusthouse »

One of the advantages of the pro level monitors are their built in calibration tools.

My PC monitors are calibrated with a Spyder 3 pro; but that's because the Spyder is connected to the PC and loads the calibrated profile into the Video Card on startup.

An external HDMI monitor connected to a DSLR is another matter. Any suggestions how to go about calibrating the extenal HDMI monitor?

The image on the Canon LCD compares well to the calibrated output of my PC monitors; but the extenal consumer level HDMI monitor connected to the DSLR is exhibiting various inaccuracies.

Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

DQE
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:33 pm
Location: near Portland, Maine, USA

Post by DQE »

Some basic monitor info that may be helpful. I have an IPS monitor and believe it has good calibration properties and generally good everyday color stability and an acceptably wide gamut. They cost about twice the price of the TN monitors, for the same size (e.g, 400-600 US dollar for a 24-inch model). I am not a monitor or color space expert, though!

Another key monitor issue is the glossiness of the screen surface - with many ambient lighting arrangements, specular reflections of the light source makes many (most?) current flat panel screens impossible to use, IMO.

Also, many inexpensive (TN) monitors fake having 8 bits per color and only effectively have 6 bits per color. This reduces the size of the available color gamut (range of colors that can be displayed).
-------------------------

Excerpt from this URL:

http://www.clarkvision.com/photoinfo/ch ... index.html

Three LCD Technologies

S-IPS LCD Panels. IPS stands for In-Plane Switching. These are the highest quality (and generally most expensive) LCD panels
made today. S-IPS panels have the largest color gamut, high color accuracy, and largest viewing angles. But the technology is slow,
so this technology is generally avoided by people wanting to view fast action, as in gaming, or viewing movies. However, the speed
gap is closing and newer S-IPS monitors tend to have faster response times. S-IPS panels are currently the best LCD technology for
photo editing and viewing.

VA LCD Panels, S-PVA/MVA. VA stands for Vertical Alignment. VA panels have similar specifications to S-IPS panels but not quite
as good. VA panels generally have higher contrast ratios (not necessarily good for photo editing) and better black levels. However,
they suffer from color shifting with different viewing angles and thus should be avoided for photo editing and viewing. Currently,
http://www.clarkvision.com/photoinfo/ch ... index.html

many 24-inch LCD monitors are S-PVA technology.

TN LCD Panels. TN stands for Twisted Nematic. These are the most common LCD panel type found, as they are cheap and offer
fast response time for gaming (typically 2 to 5 milliseconds). TN panels are currently used in most/all laptops. Unfortunately, TN
panels offer the worst color shift, contrast shift, and intensity changes with viewing angle. Laptop screens are typically opened to an
approximate viewing angle, and the vertical viewing angle probably varies more than a typical desktop setup. But the vertical viewing
angle color and contrast shifts can be extreme, even over a few degrees of angle. When viewing a uniform color on a laptop screen,
the color appears to change from top to bottom of the screen at a single viewing angle! This makes consistent photo editing very
difficult. As of this writing, most 22-inch LCD monitors are TN technology.
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

augusthouse
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:39 am
Location: New South Wales Australia

Post by augusthouse »

DQE,

Thanks for the info :wink:

Does your IPS LCD monitor have HDMI input or do you use a HDMI to DVI adapter?

I should be able to manually calibrate the Dell with the Spyder (connecting it to a PC and manually tweaking the B/C, RGB settings via monitor menu).

Those IPS panels look interesting.

Currently trying to track down an IPS panel monitor in Australia...hmm, not many available here...

*Later note: Purchased a Dell UltraSharp U2410 Monitor (IPS) from Dell Australia.

Craig

edit: added * Later note
Last edited by augusthouse on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

DQE
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:33 pm
Location: near Portland, Maine, USA

Post by DQE »

augusthouse wrote:DQE,

Thanks for the info :wink:

Does your IPS LCD monitor have HDMI input or do you use a HDMI to DVI adapter?

I should be able to manually calibrate the Dell with the Spyder (connecting it to a PC and manually tweaking the B/C, RGB settings via monitor menu).

Those IPS panels look interesting.

Currently trying to track down an IPS panel monitor in Australia...

Craig
Both ends of the Monitor-to-PC cable are DVI, no adapters needed.
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

pennine56
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:49 am
Location: UK

Post by pennine56 »

g4lab wrote:Not to hijack this thread but is anyone aware of problems caused for the sensor chip when the HDMI Live View is used regularly.

A friend of mine told me his local (Denver) camera store refused to sell him a Nikon model with HDMI output because he said he was going to have it on most of the time (that is during use on a Wild M420 Macrosope) They claimed it would overheat the chip and he would end up with a warranty problem that they supposedly did not want.

Another Wild friend of mine just sent me a picture of his outfit using "an Ikan five inch monitor" He is a member here perhaps he would post a picture or comment on his experience with that monitor.

http://www.ikancorp.com/productListing.php?CategoryID=2
Hello

I've used a Nikon D300 solely on a microscope for the last two years with the Live View on extensively and have never had a problem, this in a work room that gets up to 28C in summer. The Nikon manual states that up to an hour in Live View is acceptable and will auto shut down if there is chance of overheating. LV will also not activate if the camera detects the ambient temp is already too high.

Nikon have now extended this LV feature in the D300s (and a feature in the D5000 and D90) to allow videos to be taken in LV mode which allows up to 20 mins at a time if a lower quality video mode is chosen, the LV would be on all this time.

This is a feature designed to be used if desired and Nikon have in place protective features if there is likely a problem. I suspect the other makers have overrides in place as well. TV programmes have been recorded in LV mode on some models with an HD video mode with Live View suggesting they are designed to be on for long periods. (A Canon 5D MkII for one of the 'House' TV progs.)

with regards
David

DQE
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:33 pm
Location: near Portland, Maine, USA

Post by DQE »

pennine56 wrote:
g4lab wrote:Not to hijack this thread but is anyone aware of problems caused for the sensor chip when the HDMI Live View is used regularly.

A friend of mine told me his local (Denver) camera store refused to sell him a Nikon model with HDMI output because he said he was going to have it on most of the time (that is during use on a Wild M420 Macrosope) They claimed it would overheat the chip and he would end up with a warranty problem that they supposedly did not want.

Another Wild friend of mine just sent me a picture of his outfit using "an Ikan five inch monitor" He is a member here perhaps he would post a picture or comment on his experience with that monitor.

http://www.ikancorp.com/productListing.php?CategoryID=2
Hello

I've used a Nikon D300 solely on a microscope for the last two years with the Live View on extensively and have never had a problem, this in a work room that gets up to 28C in summer. The Nikon manual states that up to an hour in Live View is acceptable and will auto shut down if there is chance of overheating. LV will also not activate if the camera detects the ambient temp is already too high.

Nikon have now extended this LV feature in the D300s (and a feature in the D5000 and D90) to allow videos to be taken in LV mode which allows up to 20 mins at a time if a lower quality video mode is chosen, the LV would be on all this time.

This is a feature designed to be used if desired and Nikon have in place protective features if there is likely a problem. I suspect the other makers have overrides in place as well. TV programmes have been recorded in LV mode on some models with an HD video mode with Live View suggesting they are designed to be on for long periods. (A Canon 5D MkII for one of the 'House' TV progs.)

with regards
David
My understanding is that the Canon 5DII is limited to about 30 minutes of continuous video, partially due to battery life issues, partially due to max length of movie segments.

It has an "overtemperature" icon that shows up when internal overheating occurs, and it will shut down if you continue to ignore this warning. The instruction manual reads as if this is unlikely to occur but that if it does, the camera will prevent damage. If the sensor overheats, image quality degradation occurs - the lowest noise is obtained with cooler sensors, although within normal operating temperature ranges and normal exposure times, one's image noise is unlikely to be dominated by such effects.

With VERY long exposure times, one may benefit from externally cooling the sensor using a thermoelectric cooler, as is often done with digital astronomical photography. Needless to say, this is a very specialized type of photography, unrelated to normal photography.
-Phil

"Diffraction never sleeps"

PauloM
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 4:49 am
Location: Portugal

Post by PauloM »

DQE wrote: With VERY long exposure times, one may benefit from externally cooling the sensor using a thermoelectric cooler, as is often done with digital astronomical photography. Needless to say, this is a very specialized type of photography, unrelated to normal photography.
Some of Nikon's latest microscope cameras also use those thermoelectric coolers (Peltier elements) to keep the sensor's temperature down while doing long exposures or time-lapse sequences of faint fluorescent specimens.
See here

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