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Nikon 20x ?
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NikonUser



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 2575
Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Nikon 20x ? Reply with quote

What is this?
ON EBAY
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NU.
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Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
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Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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g4lab



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1434

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An objective for a Nikon Comparator. An industrial measuring shadowgraph scope.
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 20093
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an objective, what are its features? I presume it's designed for no cover glass. Working distance? What is that dark circular port on the side?

--Rik
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augusthouse



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: New South Wales Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rik wrote:
Quote:
What is that dark circular port on the side?


Possibly a beam splitter for vertical illumination.

Same seller also has a 5x and 50x.

Some more information/examples (may be helpful?) at the link below:

http://akiroom.com/redbook-e/kenkyukai07b/kenkyukai200709.html

Craig
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PaulFurman



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 595
Location: SF, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g4lab wrote:
...industrial measuring shadowgraph scope.


Does the shadow-only intent mean it's not good for normal photography? Sounds like they might be excellent: http://www.maxlevy.com/magnifdesc.cfm

I've seen some of those comparators listed on the surplus sites. Seems to be a microscope projector that is brightly lit & projects the image on a one-foot (ground glass?) screen so I guess the objective would be handy for large format 8x10 film? "Bjørn Rørslett says: Macro-Nikkors are excellent performers and within their specified magnification range will cover up to 4x5" format with ease." so maybe still very good on 35mm?

Ebay search "Nikon Comparator lens" and there is a buy-it-now 10x for $450 of the same style. The same US seller had the 5x for $900 buy-it-now and it didn't sell, with opening bid of $600.
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ChrisR
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Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's gone - did anyone here buy it? Confused
Another strange item, possibly from the same equipment is this 1 - 2.5 zoom?

This shows the comparator, but not the 1-2.5x...

n.b., telecentric lenses.
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augusthouse



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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Location: New South Wales Australia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 5x and 50x have also been sold.
Didn't think they would last long with the seller accepting offers of USD $100.00.

I vaguely remember fluor_doublet playing 'round with lenses similar to this some time ago. The resulting images are somewhere in his Flickr photostream.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluor_doublet/

Here are some objective images for reference.

5x
20x
50x






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NikonUser



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
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Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a lesson here?
Buy it first and THEN ask the question.
_________________
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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PaulFurman



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 595
Location: SF, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

augusthouse wrote:

I vaguely remember fluor_doublet playing 'round with lenses similar to this some time ago. The resulting images are somewhere in his Flickr photostream.


Here's that test of an un-named 50x comparator lens: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluor_doublet/2368074545/in/photostream/ and and the same flower stamen with a Macro-Nikkor 19mm which is optimised for 20x.

And a near infinity test from someone else: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21721108@N00/2627139151/
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ChrisR
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Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Buy it first and THEN ask the question
.My wife has a proiblem with that philosophy Confused
You bought the 20 then Wink?

Finkin... If those lenses are designed to put an image on a screen, perhaps 150dpi, they only need 1800 dots per 12" image width. Doesn't strike me as a lot. Then on a camera, it would be unlikely to have as large an image distance as that they're designed for, judging by the size of the machine. So it would be optimistic to expect as much?
??

There could be further optics inside the machine, it would make economic sense.
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g4lab



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1434

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the instrument these lenses work on. Usually there are no additional optics inside just a very high quality first surface mirror to throw the image onto the screen.

The lenses are optimized for low distortion and the fixed distance between the lens body and the screen. The side port is for a vertical illumination optional accessory. These instruments have whole suites of object holding accessories and also illumination accessories. They are often used to set cutting tools accurately and or measure their grinds.
They are usually lit with "point" source short arc lamps in the 250 watt plus range in order to develop sufficient contrast on that big screen.

It makes sense that Nikon would build them since they have zillions of lens curvatures to QC.

If anyone would like to play with one of these www.winwarehouse.org has one of these that they received with damage to the large body casting. It was probably stacked. They would probably sell it for 15 to 20% of the price of a new one. Maybe even less. They have had it a long time so are not restricted to selling it only to non profits. I haven't looked at it in detail, but will if anyone is interested. It is not listed on their website.

The word "comparator" is used to describe at least three different types of industrial instruments. The type in the listing that Paul Furman pointed to is
a simple seven or ten X triplet magnifier with a housing that can hold a reticle or scale. It can do some of the same things a big one can but with less magnification , expense, floor space and resolving power. A more accurate term is "scale magnifier". There are also comparators that are used with "Jo Blocks" Both of these are different animals than the above.

If anyone is interested in playing with these kind of things, I have in my personal collection two examples of a "gatling gun" magnification changer from a typography machine. They have US made lenses (from New York ) lenses on a disc turret that looks like a gatling gun. I would be pleased to sell them. ( about $50)

I also have a bunch of Minolta micro Rokkor microfiche lenses. These went with some large microfilm reader printers and are flat field and can throw a 12 inch square or larger image. I have various mags of them and would sell them cheep. ($20)
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NikonUser



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 2575
Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote "You bought the 20 then?"

I saw it on ebay, thought that it looked interesting but had no idea what it was.
Gene pointed me in the right direction; I blinked and it was sold (not to me).
Hence the lesson. Sad
_________________
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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ChrisR
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 8396
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I'll come clean. Some time after I realised
Quote:
n.b., telecentric lenses.

and looked at the size of the 5x's front end, I bought the 5 and 50.
The 20 might have been more useful, dunno.
If I get bored/don't use/can't understand them, I'll offer them here.
If anyone has notes to share, yes please.

I hope they arrive OK. One objective I bought from the same guy had a very soft image, then I realised it rattled. It had been dismantled and put back together with its 10 bits in the wrong order. Razz

I'll allow someone else to buy this one
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g4lab



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1434

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They look like a regular Nikon F AIS mounts. Do they pop right onto Nikon Bellows?
Peeples on fleabay is so kwazee sometimes. Why on earth would that guy think that someone would pay $1300 for that Fuji lens. They do make good lenses but he doesn't even know what its for. Rolling Eyes
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PaulFurman



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 595
Location: SF, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g4lab wrote:
The word "comparator" is used to describe at least three different types of industrial instruments. The type in the listing that Paul Furman pointed to is a simple seven or ten X triplet magnifier with a housing that can hold a reticle or scale. It can do some of the same things a big one can but with less magnification , expense, floor space and resolving power. A more accurate term is "scale magnifier".


I have no idea what lenses were used in the flickr sample shots but it sounds like you are describing the small hand held loupe style comparator lenses.

It's not clear to me whether the big machine style lenses would have enough resolution cropped down to a tiny 35mm sensor. I googled up a storm and didn't find reference to anyone using such a lens for photography other than those two flickr links. They sound potentially similar to the 'real' macro-nikkors though maybe not similar enough. The basic task they are designed for is pretty narrow in scope.
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