Canon MPE65 on a Nikon Body?

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:03 pm

Could this be made to work?
I don't know how the Canon auto-diaphragm mechanism works. Presumably the lens could be fixed in the stopped-down position?
There seem to be many adaptors for N lenses to fit EOS bodies but not vice-versa

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:37 pm

Two reasons for no Canon EOS lens to Nikon body adapters. The flange to film/sensor is larger on the Canon, so without additional optics a lens would not focus to "infinity"; and the big one is that the aperture is completely electronic so there is no way to change the aperture.

The 65mm MPE starts at 1:1 so loss of infinity focus is no big deal. Normally EOS lenses are at maximum aperture when not mounted on a camera. I could tell you how to "fix" a Canon lens aperture to a specific aperture (you would need temporary access to an EOS body) even when not attached to a body. An adapter could be made from the female EOS mount and the male Nikon mount of those cheap Chinese extension tubes. But I can't imagine having such a lens "fixed" at only one aperture. Seems like it would be very frustrating.

mgoodm3 · Post by **mgoodm3** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:44 pm

Isn't the canon lens mount larger in diameter also???

the flange on the Nikon is farther from the sensor than the Canon.

Canon FD 42mm
Canon EOS/EF 44mm
Nikon F 46.5mm

mgoodm3 · Post by **mgoodm3** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:55 pm

Lens mount diameter:

Nikon F - 44mm
Canon FD - 48mm
Canon EF - 54mm

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:26 am

OK Charles, so if I glue a Canon rear lens cap to a Nikon body cap, what DO I do with those pesky electrickery bits?

Are the specs of the camera-to-lens connections for any of the manufacturers published, anyone

I can see me buying a bashed-up AF Nikkor just to see what the connections do.

One fellow who's been there and has a collection of T shirts for sale is Bjørn Rørslett, but he doesn't tell us much on his site.
http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:12 pm

Chris,

I don't know of anyone who has controlled EOS apertures without an EOS body. There is a fellow who can convert to Canon EOS bodies some of the Zeiss lenses that were made for the Contax N. These also had electronically controlled apertures. It was an expensive conversion but apparently the the auto aperture worked just fine. So at least there is one guy out there who has some understanding of the procedure.

If you want to get an EOS lens set to a smaller than full aperture when it is removed from the camera you need to put it on an EOS body in "A" (aperture preferred) mode, set the aperture you want, hit the depth-of-field preview button, and while the lens is stopped down remove it from the body. Interesting exercise, but I've never found a use for this little trick.

I can't imagine trying to do this. There are quite a few used Canon digital bodies out there at decent prices!

elf · Post by **elf** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:55 pm

I've done this with my Olympus 35mm macro lens reversed just to see if it would be better than the El-Nikkor 50mm f/2 lens. The results were pretty close as far as resolution and the Olympus lens was capable of greater magnification but diffraction limits both to about 3X, so there was no reason to use the Olympus lens instead of the El-Nikkor.

What do you perceive the benefits of the Canon 65mm MPE to be that would make it worth doing such a conversion?

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:05 am

Elf - there's nothing in Nikon's range which is good for magnifications of say up to 4 times, in the field. A reversed 28mm is usable, but with adapters (especially with a double cable release) it's a bit of a handful.

I don't know anything about EOS bodies, I suppose some of them must be cheap, but flash, other bits and pieces, software etc would all be different.

Mike B in OKlahoma · Post by **Mike B in OKlahoma** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:27 pm

Getting a Canon body with the MP-E-65 seems the most practical way to do this, but as you've pointed out, flashes and accessories would really stack up the cost. If you don't need one of the specialized macro flashes (MT-24 or MR-14) you could probably get by with using cheap Vivitar flashes that don't actually work with the EOS body, and using manual flash, but I have no experience with it.

The cheapest Canon bodies have miserably poor focusing screens. I'm speaking of the XTi here from personal experience. I suspect, but don't know, that the XSi has the same screen. But many of the newest bodies have focusing via LCD view, and that's what I'd recommend investigating if you try this. (I'm too fuddy-duddyish to have tried the live view focusing myself).

If you don't want to go with the live view (or research proves it is unworkable for your application) I've owned the EOS 10D and EOS 40D, and they are dim but usable for manual focus. EOS 10Ds are available used for very cheap, B&H has a used one for $269.

The Rebel XSi has live view focusing, and sells for about $600. The MP-E-65 is about $865. The Sigma EM-140 ring flash (for Canon) sells for $350. I have no experience with the EM-140 myself. This would put you about $300 over your $1500 target. Getting the Canon ring flash would add about $100, but I'd recommend it if you could afford it (and chose to go this route) to avoid dealing with Sigma gear that reverse engineers the EOS flash system. Adding the Canon MT-24 (twin head macro flash) would add about $200 additional, but it is a very nice flash!

If you can pull this off in the way I described, or some other, I think you'll like the MP-E-65. It's still not easy to use, but is very convenient compared to many of the other high-magnification options I've seen.

Mike B in OKlahoma · Post by **Mike B in OKlahoma** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:30 pm

One more thought....I guess a Nikon 200mm macro lens, 2x teleconverter, and a good quality closeup diopter would put you at something like 3x? Possibly adding an extension tube for a bit more? Not as flexible as the MP-E-65, but it would save a lot of expense and system-switching hassle if that's enough magnification for your purposes. I assume you've read the cautionary tales I and others have posted about how critical precise manual focus is when you get to 5x, and how difficult this is in the field? Is 3x doable?

elf · Post by **elf** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:36 am

This M42 Helicoid would probably be a better option for Nikon (or any other non-Canon) camera: http://forum.mflenses.com/m42-helicoid- ... icoid.html

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Sat May 02, 2009 4:22 am

It's a MF lens, so it doesn't need a helicoid.
The thing I haven't found how to do - though it's probably out there somewhere, is electrically stop an EOS lens down when off the camera.
It'll probably be a voltage, or a current, or a pulse, or a series of pulses.
None of which would be hard to generate, I'd have thought. One would stop the lens down then operate the Nikon shutter, so making an auto diaphragm.

WHat do you EOS boys and girls do when you want to reverse a lens??

Mike - I suppose a converter and a macro and a close-up lens has some mileage (millimeterage?), but the ones I have (2x cheapie and 55/2.8 ) don't work well. Perhaps a better converter, but WD gets too short too.

A close-up "filter" doesn't do too much for an extended short lens.

--

ANother option might be to use a Nikkor zoom micro reversed, but apparently it's not strong enough to put much stress on the filter thread.
Anyone tried that? You still need a Z ring.

mgoodm3 · Post by **mgoodm3** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:40 am

Reversed lenses can be any old brand.

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:45 am

Just not any NEW brand! It seems a shame when there are so many excellent lenses in the EOS family.

elf · Post by **elf** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:43 am

ChrisR wrote:It's a MF lens, so it doesn't need a helicoid.
The thing I haven't found how to do - though it's probably out there somewhere, is electrically stop an EOS lens down when off the camera.
It'll probably be a voltage, or a current, or a pulse, or a series of pulses.
None of which would be hard to generate, I'd have thought. One would stop the lens down then operate the Nikon shutter, so making an auto diaphragm.

The helicoid isn't for focusing, it performs the same function as a bellows.
It can be much more flexible than the Canon MPE since you can put any lens on it. Put a short focal length on for maximum magnification or a long focal length for more working distance.