Does anyone have recommendations for a microscope camera? I'm looking for one with a USB connection and software. Looks like there are quite a few on the market, but the specifications are rarely clear. I get the feeling, there may be a lot of 'fashion' wares out there for the yuppie kids (does one still say 'yuppie?)
I want to fotograph chromosomes, which are small to start with, so a camera that takes extremely clear fotos that may be enlarged and edited would be the ticket. From my own expereince more than 3M pixels is really not required. Any opinions?
Microscope cameras
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
Microscope cameras
Jamie
Cologne
Germany
waking escapes the dream
Cologne
Germany
waking escapes the dream
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rjlittlefield
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From personal experience I don't really rate the cheaper one, I have a motic 3 megapixel camera that costs a huge amount of cash and I've used it about 4 times. The results aren't great in comparision with what my Nikon D200 creates using an adaptor. I bought a new scope at auction a few months ago that came with a Zeiss AxioCam Hrc which is meant to be the best cam you can get, I've only tried a few shows so far as I haven't had much chance to use the scope but I'm still not convinced it's any better than the nikon but it's getting there.
Thanks for the input. Although it is convenient to just pop the camera into the ocular tube, if the results are less than say with a PowerShot A650, then I prefer to work with a camera that I can otherwise use. And there is a microscope adapter for the PowerShot.
Which Zeiss model did you get? I've been planning on getting a fluorescent model some time next year (Axiostar plus). Pricey little toys, they are.
Which Zeiss model did you get? I've been planning on getting a fluorescent model some time next year (Axiostar plus). Pricey little toys, they are.
Jamie
Cologne
Germany
waking escapes the dream
Cologne
Germany
waking escapes the dream
I have played with a couple cheap ones (both USB): Nice ones are $$$.
Dinolite handheld: kinda fun little toys. A lot of coin guys like to play with these to look at various coin things such as die varieties. Decent pics, but can't really come close to a good camera.
Celestron eyepiece replacement: Worked OK, but I found it worked better if I took off the eyepiece lens part and ran it as a bare CCD. Messed with the working distance a little, but better pics. Again can't compete with a dSLR.
Dinolite handheld: kinda fun little toys. A lot of coin guys like to play with these to look at various coin things such as die varieties. Decent pics, but can't really come close to a good camera.
Celestron eyepiece replacement: Worked OK, but I found it worked better if I took off the eyepiece lens part and ran it as a bare CCD. Messed with the working distance a little, but better pics. Again can't compete with a dSLR.
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Tardigrade37
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Hi all,
I haven't used any USB cameras, but I can say that it is much more convenient IMO to focus and capture images directly to the computer than on a camera's LCD. At home, I use a Q-Imaging Micropublisher 5 for digital imaging - tethered via firewire and controlled by Q-Capture Suite, it works very well. At work, I use mainly Axiocams (both MR and HR in color and monochrome) - the integration with Axiovision is superb! In addition, I have used Q-Imaging Retiga cameras which are also great. I too recently purchased a new scope through an auction and am eagerly awaiting its arrival. It is an Axiovert 200M fully outfitted with fluorescence and even structured illumination via an Apotome
, but I digress. It is equipped with a Hamamatsu Orca camera, so I will report on that when I get a handle on it. 
Hairyduck - if you're ever interested in selling your Axiocam, let me know; I would rather have everything integrated in Axiovision and Zeiss does not have the drivers to support Q-Imaging cameras
. There is one available on Ebay right now, but after speaking with Zeiss, it may be costly to get the required PCI card with optical inputs. The new versions use firewire, so its easier to retrofit.
I haven't used any USB cameras, but I can say that it is much more convenient IMO to focus and capture images directly to the computer than on a camera's LCD. At home, I use a Q-Imaging Micropublisher 5 for digital imaging - tethered via firewire and controlled by Q-Capture Suite, it works very well. At work, I use mainly Axiocams (both MR and HR in color and monochrome) - the integration with Axiovision is superb! In addition, I have used Q-Imaging Retiga cameras which are also great. I too recently purchased a new scope through an auction and am eagerly awaiting its arrival. It is an Axiovert 200M fully outfitted with fluorescence and even structured illumination via an Apotome
, but I digress. It is equipped with a Hamamatsu Orca camera, so I will report on that when I get a handle on it. Hairyduck - if you're ever interested in selling your Axiocam, let me know; I would rather have everything integrated in Axiovision and Zeiss does not have the drivers to support Q-Imaging cameras
. There is one available on Ebay right now, but after speaking with Zeiss, it may be costly to get the required PCI card with optical inputs. The new versions use firewire, so its easier to retrofit.The ORCA is a monochrome camera. If you can use monochrome
it expands the number of cameras available. Most such cameras have a C mount which is usually easier to adapt to your microscope.
Zeiss used to be a dealer for all manner of other cameras but then they made the marketing move to keep everything in house. So for AxioVision
you need to have and AxioCam and vice versa. There is probably some support for external brands but their heart ain't in it.
One has to be a bit cautious and make certain in advance that ones choice of camera, interface and software will work well together. ORCA cameras (and pretty much everything from Hamamatsu) are excellent. But they use an advanced computer interface card called AIA (I think its also called RS-455)
So in this case you need to make sure that your Software supports your particular AIA card. Then you have to come up with a cable to go from your camera controller to your computer. In the case of the ORCA they charge between $500 and $800 for that cable.
The devil is always in the details.
it expands the number of cameras available. Most such cameras have a C mount which is usually easier to adapt to your microscope.
Zeiss used to be a dealer for all manner of other cameras but then they made the marketing move to keep everything in house. So for AxioVision
you need to have and AxioCam and vice versa. There is probably some support for external brands but their heart ain't in it.
One has to be a bit cautious and make certain in advance that ones choice of camera, interface and software will work well together. ORCA cameras (and pretty much everything from Hamamatsu) are excellent. But they use an advanced computer interface card called AIA (I think its also called RS-455)
So in this case you need to make sure that your Software supports your particular AIA card. Then you have to come up with a cable to go from your camera controller to your computer. In the case of the ORCA they charge between $500 and $800 for that cable.
The devil is always in the details.
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Tardigrade37
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I couldn't agree more g4. I have never been able to get a Diagnostic Instruments camera to work due to hardware and software incompatibilities. That is why I am a huge fan of the simple firewire interfaces - my Q-Imaging camera is plug and play anywhere (even with laptops!). For those who may have some of these cameras (or any microscope hardware with a software interface for that matter), check out the open source program μManager (http://www.micro-manager.org/). This is an excellent way of keeping everything running under one interface.
FWIW, Axiovision does support Hamamatsu cameras, but the driver module is ~$800 to add on to the software. μManager supports Hamamatsu for free
FWIW, Axiovision does support Hamamatsu cameras, but the driver module is ~$800 to add on to the software. μManager supports Hamamatsu for free
That's typical YMMV (your mileage may vary)
I have had a couple of DI SPOT cameras and never had any trouble getting them to work. With SPOT software that is. Never tried any other software.
I had some ORCA cameras which I bought to resell. I had to twist the arm of the product manager at Hamamatsu USA to give me some software to test them with. They had a very abbreviated program that would not save any images for just that purpose.
Some of Hamamatsu's cameras use the SCSI interface.
The notion of charging $800 for a driver for someone else's camera is so anti democratic that I wouldn't use their software under any circumstances.
I have been to micromanagers website and it sounds like a great idea, open source microscopy software. But I think it may be early in its development and it doesn't support alot of different pieces of gear.
I have had a couple of DI SPOT cameras and never had any trouble getting them to work. With SPOT software that is. Never tried any other software.
I had some ORCA cameras which I bought to resell. I had to twist the arm of the product manager at Hamamatsu USA to give me some software to test them with. They had a very abbreviated program that would not save any images for just that purpose.
Some of Hamamatsu's cameras use the SCSI interface.
The notion of charging $800 for a driver for someone else's camera is so anti democratic that I wouldn't use their software under any circumstances.
I have been to micromanagers website and it sounds like a great idea, open source microscopy software. But I think it may be early in its development and it doesn't support alot of different pieces of gear.
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Tardigrade37
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Well, it's either $800 to run it under Axiovision or $XXX to run it under Hamamatsu software... Or free under Micro manager 
. As with all open-source things, the only thing required for growth is user input. I have met Nico and Nenad (the designers/engineers behind the software) and they are very open to helping you get everything up and running. They are also eager to incorporate "garage microscopy" items as I spoke with them about controlling stepper motors to add on computer-controller focus to my old Zeiss Standard. Unfortunately I have yet to get around to doing this, but they suggested several options and driver templates I could follow.
. As with all open-source things, the only thing required for growth is user input. I have met Nico and Nenad (the designers/engineers behind the software) and they are very open to helping you get everything up and running. They are also eager to incorporate "garage microscopy" items as I spoke with them about controlling stepper motors to add on computer-controller focus to my old Zeiss Standard. Unfortunately I have yet to get around to doing this, but they suggested several options and driver templates I could follow.-
Tardigrade37
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Harold Gough
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You have to consider what you are paying for. Does any specified camera have its own optics or does it use only those of the microscope?
As for Yuppies, I believe they are now extinct but they left some fatherless offspring who dealt in something called "sub-primes".
Harold
As for Yuppies, I believe they are now extinct but they left some fatherless offspring who dealt in something called "sub-primes".
Harold
My images are a medium for sharing some of my experiences: they are not me.
Most microscope cameras have no optics. They use those of the microscope and between the trinoc and the camera there has to be some properly sized projective just as when using a 35mm film back.
All the microscope companies make such couplers to fit C mounts. Some have C mounts with varying magnification lenses so that different size chips can be used.
There are also aftermarket methods the best of which IMHO are the coupler products from Diagnostic Instruments www.diaginc.com
Their coupler line is very confusing at first but using their products you can adapt almost any camera to almost any microscope. They also make cameras which I like pretty well although you have to shoot and initially process inside their software. It does support common image formats.
C mounts are very common for micrscope cameras. DI uses alot of Nikon F mounts too and makes couplers with those as well. DI is not an economical approach unless you can find what you need on ebay. Their quality is excellent and their website has some good technical papers.
All the microscope companies make such couplers to fit C mounts. Some have C mounts with varying magnification lenses so that different size chips can be used.
There are also aftermarket methods the best of which IMHO are the coupler products from Diagnostic Instruments www.diaginc.com
Their coupler line is very confusing at first but using their products you can adapt almost any camera to almost any microscope. They also make cameras which I like pretty well although you have to shoot and initially process inside their software. It does support common image formats.
C mounts are very common for micrscope cameras. DI uses alot of Nikon F mounts too and makes couplers with those as well. DI is not an economical approach unless you can find what you need on ebay. Their quality is excellent and their website has some good technical papers.
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Charles Krebs
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Jamie,
I have very little experience with dedicated microscope cameras. But it would be helpful to know what type of microscope, and the illumination method (ie: fluorescence) you will be using. If you will be using fluorescence then a camera that is cooled (to keep noise levels down) should be considered.
If you are using an older scope with a finite optical system that relies on corrective eyepieces your options will be different compared to those with a newer "infinity" scope.
With new "infinity" scopes your image is completely chromatically corrected by the time it reaches the eyepiece. This means you can choose from a large selection of quality couplers ("relay" optics) from the manufacturers, as well as firms like (as g4lab mentioned) Diagnostic Instruments and Qioptiq (Optem). These can be obtained to match virtually any camera sensor size.
If you have a finite optical system that requires corrective eyepieces to make final chromatic aberration corrections, your choices will be fewer. These systems were designed so that important chromatic corrections were to be performed by the eyepieces (and photo-eyepieces). When these were made, the "small" format was 35mm film (24x36mm format). As a result, it can be difficult to get proper corrective optics to accommodate the much smaller sensors used in many microscope cameras. (Some users don't seem to worry too much about this and use non-corrective optics, so your tolerance of some degree of chromatic aberration could be a consideration here). There was no "standardization" as to the types and amount of correction, so, in this case, it is always best to stick with the eyepieces and "relay" optics the microscope manufacturer made to be used with it's objectives.
I have very little experience with dedicated microscope cameras. But it would be helpful to know what type of microscope, and the illumination method (ie: fluorescence) you will be using. If you will be using fluorescence then a camera that is cooled (to keep noise levels down) should be considered.
If you are using an older scope with a finite optical system that relies on corrective eyepieces your options will be different compared to those with a newer "infinity" scope.
With new "infinity" scopes your image is completely chromatically corrected by the time it reaches the eyepiece. This means you can choose from a large selection of quality couplers ("relay" optics) from the manufacturers, as well as firms like (as g4lab mentioned) Diagnostic Instruments and Qioptiq (Optem). These can be obtained to match virtually any camera sensor size.
If you have a finite optical system that requires corrective eyepieces to make final chromatic aberration corrections, your choices will be fewer. These systems were designed so that important chromatic corrections were to be performed by the eyepieces (and photo-eyepieces). When these were made, the "small" format was 35mm film (24x36mm format). As a result, it can be difficult to get proper corrective optics to accommodate the much smaller sensors used in many microscope cameras. (Some users don't seem to worry too much about this and use non-corrective optics, so your tolerance of some degree of chromatic aberration could be a consideration here). There was no "standardization" as to the types and amount of correction, so, in this case, it is always best to stick with the eyepieces and "relay" optics the microscope manufacturer made to be used with it's objectives.