Nikon D810 EFSC and Live View

[Macrero]

Hi all,

I am back from quite long and (I believe) deserved vacation Hope y'all doing well.

So, I am looking for a FF camera for studio work/stacking. I don't need umpteen MP nor Pixel shift, I gave up on that... DR is much more important to me since I am an ETTR guy.

The D810 (although "old") suits all my needs regarding sensor, DR, etc... But after reading quite a lot of threads about it I still have doubts about its usage for studio macrophography with continuous light (no flash), vibration issues, etc.

I would appreciate any info/experience about/with this camera for studio macro/micro work.

Best,

- Macrero

EDIT: I know the D850 has a "silent mode", but I am not paying 2X the price for a bunch of MP I don't need.

The a7R II is an option as well, but apparently DR is not as good.

[Macro_Cosmos]

I use the D810 for my stuff, look here to have an idea:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcmicroscopy/

Quite a diverse photopool, there's lots of macro and micro stuff.

[Macrero]

Thanks for your input, Macro_Cosmos. Nice gallery! It seems the camera is working just fine for my purpose and there are no apparent issues.

Truth be told, the D850 is tempting me... I can get it new for 2.000 EUR, while the D810 would cost me around 1.100 (used). I should sleep on it...

Best,

- Macrero

[mawyatt]

Don't think the D810 has the fully electronic curtain completely silent mode of the D850, where no mechanical curtain is employed. The start and ending of exposure is fully electronic and the mechanical rear curtain or mirror does not activate after the exposure. However, this mode blocks the use of the hot shoe or flash, a work around has been devised with an external controller to trigger flash/strobe.

The mirrorless Z6 and Z7 also have the same mode as the D850.

Best,

[Macrero]

Mike,

no, the the D810 does not have a "silent mode" (fully electronic shutter), but EFSC. That + MLU in Live View (in theory) should be enough to get rid of vibrations during exposure.

I have never used a FF camera for studio work/stacking, have been always working with APS-C and MFT cameras. I think I will give the D810 a try.

-Macrero

[mawyatt]

Macrero,

Where the rear mechanical curtain comes into play is with high magnifications and very quick sequential exposures. The induced vibration for the rear mechanical curtain may last long enough (with setups with long time constants) to effect the next exposure, however this must be accounted for with the camera/lens motion induced vibration as well which occurs during the same time frame (one reason I've developed the Piezo and VCM controllers), so may not be a factor in some cases.

Another parameter in favor of the D850, Z6 and Z7 is with fully electronic curtains the mechanical curtains don't wear out, so the life span of the camera should be better. If you plan on doing large S&S sessions this is worth considering.

Anyway, lots of good camera options today from Nikon and others, you really can't go wrong with any of them.

Best,

[Macrero]

Mike,

I do not shoot micro, I rarely work at higher than 10X mag. For stacking with proper delay between shots, the rear curtain "shock" and the mirror slap should not affect next shot.

The longer lifespan with fully ES is a valid point, but I am not doing S&S neither. I used cameras (lower range than the D810) with EFSC for stacking for years, I never had a shutter related problem.

Sure, mirrorless with fully ES is the best option. There are quite a few new, fashionable cameras: Sony a7R IV, Pana DC-S1R, Nikon Z7... But I am not willing to spend more than say 1200 EUR on camera. So the options are the D810, a7R II, Pentax K1 and... that's it.

I was almost set on the a7R II, mirrorless, ES... but far from stellar DR, at least according to DXO. That's why I ended up with the D810.

Best,

- Macrero

[Macro_Cosmos]

Yeah, the D810 doesn't have a fully electronic shutter.

One thing about fully electronic shutters is the raw bit depth. The D850 should still produce lossless 14bit raws. I will try and verify this since I'm interested in getting one too.

[mawyatt]

Mike,

I do not shoot micro, I rarely work at higher than 10X mag. For stacking with proper delay between shots, the rear curtain "shock" and the mirror slap should not affect next shot.

Best,

- Macrero

With very large S&S efforts, say 10,000 images, each second equates to almost 3 hrs, and I've already done ~20,000 image sessions! Many systems have very long time constants (seconds) when viewed at high magnifications, so not exciting the long system time constant resonance is a factor worth considering in reducing the long session times. A good example of a long system time constant is a heavy Mitutoyo 20X with tube lens hanging on a long 200mm+ tube lens assembly with the camera sitting on a focus rail which is attached to a vertical bar, which is attached to the base. Supporting the camera & lens assembly goes a long way in reducing this time constant, as does stiffing up the vertical bar and base attachment means, or moving to an optical lab grade setup like with Thor Labs components. An automated microscope based setup is another option.

One goal I've placed upon myself is to be able to shoot massive S&S sessions with 1~2 second intervals between images, I've achieved this with custom optimized Trinamic Stepper motor controllers and the D850 (or soon Z7). Now I'm trying to get to ~1 second or below using the Physik Piezo stage (or VCM) with custom optimized controllers mentioned here at PM to do the fine steps and stepper based rail for the coarse positioning.

Anyway, if you aren't interesting in any this, then the mechanical rear curtain isn't a problem other than curtain lifespan.

BTW I have and use often the D500, which has the same EFCS features as the D810 I believe. It's also a great camera, but I don't use it on the massive sessions to keep the mechanical shutter count down.

Best,

[Macrero]

Mike,

that sounds crazy No, I am not even planning to do Stack&Stitch. For what I do, the shutter of a mid/high-range, well built camera (as is the D810) would last me years, so that's not a problem.

I took a look at the D500, but I think it is a different animal and can't be compared to the D810.

-Macrero

[Bob-O-Rama]

Now that I have it, I find the pixel shift an almost mandatory feature rather than a gimmick when working with high performing optics. Getting an extra 20-40% linear resolution, no color artifacts, no OLPF, and 2 stops of DR is nothing to sneeze at if DR is your primary concern.

You can see the difference here: https://www.dpreview.com/news/205552703 ... amic-range they use the D810 as their comparative benchmark. You can select the Pixel Shift in the drop down and see for yourself.

FWIW, with the K-3 ii, you can get all that but APS-C for $500 and just leave it permanently attached.

[Macrero]

Bob,

I haven't tried the Pentax/Sony Pixel Shift, but I own an Oly Pen F, which I bought basically for the pixel shifting.

I did a lot of tests and stacks, spent a lot of time in the studio, tried quite a few different converters for the pixel-shifted RAWs.... The results I got are not worth it for me.

First off, I don't need 80MP images, I can think of a very few (or none) people that actually need that. The resulting image needs a ton of PP/sharpening in order to get detail/sharpness. There is no way to end up with a clean, detailed image at 80 nor at 50MP. I did not see the claimed significant gain in DR either...

It was fun, but I got tired and gave up... I am not obsessed with resolution/detail, nor I need technically perfect images, I don't make living with photography.

The "artistic"" part is much more important to me. See the gallery bellow. All the photos are taken with low-end cameras: Canon 40D, Fuji X-M1, Sony a5100, Oly PEN F...Sure, I could have taken higher resolution pictures with a high-end, fashionable cameras, but I don't think I would have taken better photos with them.

Yesterday I bought a D810, which I plan to use till it lasts. No matter how much new, high-resolution, cutting edge technology cameras pops up on the market...

Best,

- Macrero