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I made a booboo, how to get x5 now?
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itsmee



Joined: 11 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: I made a booboo, how to get x5 now? Reply with quote

Hi. I made a decision to buy a WeMacro and a Laowa x5 lens, saved the money and ordered the WeMacro, went to order the Laowa lens only to find the don’t sell it with a Sony A-mount to fitting Sony A77. I’ve asked Laowa for advice and they say I can buy a Nikon or Canon fitting and get an adaptor but there will be a loss of quality because of the optics in the adaptor. I really wanted the x5 but don’t want to buy it and use an adaptor if I’m going to lose quality. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this? I have a Tamron x2 macro lens to use when the WeMacro arrives, so all is not lost..

Last edited by itsmee on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something like a Canon MP35 (used) on tubes?
It would be entirely manual.
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itsmee



Joined: 11 Jan 2019
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chris. Apart from the cannon being more than twice the price and out of my budget, I would still need adaptors which from what I have been told would cause a loss of quality.. I’m thinking of buying a Raynox adaptor but I’m not sure which..
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Pau
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsmee wrote:
Hi Chris. Apart from the cannon being more than twice the price and out of my budget, I would still need adaptors which from what I have been told would cause a loss of quality.. I’m thinking of buying a Raynox adaptor but I’m not sure which..


With a bellows (or extension tubes) + lens setup you don't need lens bundled adapters, just empty space between the sensor and lens.
The adapters with lenses are needed when you want to use lenses designed for a camera with smaller flange focal distance. The Minolta/Sony A mount has a FFD of 44.50mm while Canon EF has 44.00mm and Nikon F 46.50 mm*, so without a lens they can't focus to infinite.
But here you don't want infinite focus. There are lensless adapters** that could work well with the Laowa lens (not 100% sure because I don't know the details of how the lens focuses).

* Theoretically possible but I can't find such a 2mm thick adapter

**like https://www.ebay.com/itm/Macro-Nikon-F-Mount-Lens-to-Sony-Minolta-MA-Camera-Adapter-A58-A99-A65-A57-A77/113247179779?hash=item1a5e0ed403:g:xScAAOSw4cBbmhuE:rk:103:pf:0
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Adalbert



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi You :-)
What about an used Mitty 5x on your macro Tamron or DCR-150 ?
BR, ADi
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hi Chris. Apart from the cannon being more than twice the price and out of my budget, I would still need adaptors which from what I have been told would cause a loss of quality..


You've been misinformed.
You should be able to get the Canon lens I mentioned for about HALF the price of the Laowa 2.5 - 5x. They aren't exactly rare, though I don't see one at the moment.

You don't need any glass adapter, just an empty tube. Cheap from China.
The quality is very good.
Quote:

I’m thinking of buying a Raynox adaptor but I’m not sure which..

The only common Raynox which would get you much magnification is the MSN202. Quality pretty poor.

What is your Tamron 2x lens?
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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Location: Borgholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: I made a booboo, how to get x5 now? Reply with quote

itsmee wrote:
Hi. I made a decision to buy a WeMacro and a Laowa x5 lens, saved the money and ordered the WeMacro, went to order the Laowa lens only to find the don’t sell it with a Sony A-mount to fitting Sony A77. I’ve asked Laowa for advice and they say I can buy a Nikon or Canon fitting and get an adaptor but there will be a loss of quality because of the optics in the adaptor. I really wanted the x5 but don’t want to buy it and use an adaptor if I’m going to lose quality. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this? I have a Tamron x2 macro lens to use when the WeMacro arrives, so all is not lost..

Maybe I am missing something, but adapters for Canon or Nikon lens on Sony A cameras do not need to have any optics, so there is no reason why a Canon- or Nikon-mount lens with adapter should perform any worse than a lens with native Sony A mount. The only thing the adapter does is provide on a Sony A camera the same lens-to-sensor distance as on a Canon or Nikon camera, respectively.

The only possibility for an adapter of these types to reduce image quality on a Sony A camera are:
1 - The adapter is not properly flocked and contrast is reduced (which can be fixed with added flocking).
2 - The metal around the rear bayonet of the adapter is too thick, and causes a minor darkening of the extreme corners on a Sony full-frame sensor (the Sony Alpha bayonet is just a bit too narrow, and with some lenses, especially those with rear element far from the sensor, can cause this problem). A small amount of cropping in post-processing solves this problem.

The lens has manual aperture, as far as I know, so there need to be no mechanical or electronic transmissions in the adapter.

To me, it sounds like the Laowa representative is misinformed.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, as a Laowa owner, I can also tell you that you've been misinformed. Any lens that works with a Nikon or Canon sensor will work just as well on a Sony sensor with the standard empty tube adapters from Nikon or Canon to Sony.
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Pau
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enrico, here we are talking about Minolta/Sony mount, not mirrorles
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, then my comment is also wrong, only applying to Sony mirrorless mounts.
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:
Enrico, here we are talking about Minolta/Sony mount, not mirrorles

Aha, so I was missing something.
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itsmee



Joined: 11 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed I was lost before now I am hopelessly lost.

@ChrisR. my Tamron lens is Tamron 272E Macro Lens. 90mm f/2.8

@Pau. Surely I need an adaptor of some sort to hook up to the lens to the bellows at one end? Or arent they camera specific? Sorry but I am as green as grass. Can you recommend a set of bellows that will fit with Wemacro? And would I be best buying the Nikon Laowa Lens ?
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Yawns



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
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Location: Benavente, Portugal

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this may sound a bit radical and silly but did you consider to change the camera instead of buying adapters, bellows and such ...?

There is a Nikon 5100 at MPB lenses with 3.500 shots for 134 pounds ...
you will endup spending more on adapters, bellows, Raynox and blah blah blah Smile
The camera is pretty capable ( I still using one for my table stacks...)

You keep your Sony A mount and lenses and stuff for your other photography and you use the Wemacro + Nikon+ Laowa for your table stacks...
Just my 50 cents...
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Pau
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsmee wrote:
Embarassed I was lost before now I am hopelessly lost.

Don't despair!

You have many options even if none of them matches your initial idea
If you really want to use the Laowa-Venus lens
- buy a used low end DSLR camera, Nikon or Canon. Canon has some advantages like vibration-less silent mode (EFSC) in live view and easy computer tethering, both most useful for high magnification while recent Nikon sensors seem better.
- Use a Laowa Nikon model with the kind of adapter I linked but wait if any member knows how it focuses (it if focuses* only by extension it will be fine although if it has compensating movement between lens elements it could be affected by some image degradation)

If you're open to other alternatives
- Use a classic macro lens like the 35mm Canon or reversed short focal length enlarger lens with bellows or extension tubes. You would need to buy the bellows and adapters for the lens and camera.
- Use another lens on a moderately long focal lens like your current macro making a lens combo
- Use a finite corrected microscope objective on bellows or tube
- Use an infinite corrected objective on a 100-200mm focused to infinite
All these options but the second one have been discussed at the forum


* actually changing magnification
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
wait if any member knows how it focuses


I took a quick look at my Laowa and both the front and back elements move out as the lens is focused; but they may not move out by the same amount. Will have to make some more careful measurements to be sure. There might also be middle elements that move at different rates. I can't tell.

The internal lens housing is similar in design to the Kubotek/Rayfact lenses that have floating elements, rather than being a simple helicoid. Based on this, I would say that it probably does NOT focus by pure extension.
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Last edited by Lou Jost on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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