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Ebay Sellers Read This Use Caution Selling On Ebay
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1538
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Ebay Sellers Read This Use Caution Selling On Ebay Reply with quote

Ebay'ers beware.

Just to inform everyone here on the forum that sells on Ebay I just had a judgement against me that is against Ebay's own policies so you need to be aware.

This month a buyer decides to return an objective he bought from me.

Return is OK by me and a return tag is provided to seller by Ebay.

Buyer ships back on Nov 6.

Notice Left (No Authorized Recipient Available) signature required November 8,

Visited main post office and I am told "we lost it, the items not here and we have no idea where it is"."All we know is its not here"

Yesterday buyer escalates and Ebay steps in to review and makes a decision against me.

Ebay debited my PP account on the spot.

6 phone calls, almost 3 hrs on the phone with Ebay and the management tells me:

"a delivery attempt is good enough for us to credit a return, you should have known to be home to receive it"

"You need to contact the buyer and see about collecting the funds from him"

"I cant provide the these policies in writing since they are not written"

"You need to contact USPS for reimbursement" knowing very well that USPS told me that I cannot even file a claim for a first class package since there was no insurance on the item, I have it in writing.

I called Paypal and they said that this is against their policy and I am covered but I have to wait a few days for a decision.

Thankfully that was funded with AMEX and I know 100% they will credit that back since there is no proof of delivery for the returned item.

BTW I've been selling on Ebay for more than 10 years and have 100% positive feedback.

Will update if and when I hear back from Paypal.

Update

just double-checked by calling ebay again and Ebay confirms that sellers are liable for a USPS delivery attempt on a return. Just an attempt. Delivery attempt is the same as a delivery.

They also gave me an option of filing a police report and to submit that as an appeal.


Robert
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ChrisR
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 8463
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you should have known to be home to receive it


That's appalling. Brick wall

I think it's the postal service's fault, at root. This side of the pond they're also too sloppy, so ebay buyers claim things haven't been delivered when they have.

Good luck with Paypal/Amex.
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Adalbert



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 886

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robert,

Thank you for the hint!


Yes, probably it depends on that who delivers the packages.
For example DHL tries to deliver two times and then leaves a message in the mailbox,
that the package has to be picked up by yourself in the next 7 days at the post office close to you.

Good luck!

BR, ADi
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1538
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adalbert wrote:
Hi Robert,

Thank you for the hint!


Yes, probably it depends on that who delivers the packages.
For example DHL tries to deliver two times and then leaves a message in the mailbox,
that the package has to be picked up by yourself in the next 7 days at the post office close to you.

Good luck!

BR, ADi


DHL and Fedex is Excellent, USP is good also. USPS has lost maybe 3 packages in 5 or 6 years.

Ebay's poor customer service 100% to blame for this situation.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1538
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update

Paypal and Ebay now recommend that I file a police incident report against the Ebay buyer!

This is the latest message from Ebay:


Quote:
eBay Money Back Guarantee case - SR#


Dear Robert,

Thanks for contacting us about Mitutoyo Objective. I'm sorry to hear there was an issue with your order. I understand that you did not receive the item back.

In order to help us resolve this case, please file a report with your local police or law enforcement agency.

Please include the following in the report:

Description of the item
Name of the officer filing the report
Badge number of the officer filing the report
Station location (city and state)
Station phone number
Once you have the completed report, send it to us by replying to this message from your personal email account.

Please don’t change the subject line, as it ensures that the message is routed directly to us.

If your local police or law enforcement agency is unable to provide the report you requested, please send us the information listed above and we’ll contact them to verify that you attempted to file a report.

We've placed this case on hold for 10 calendar days to give you time to file and send the report. Once we receive and confirm the report, we'll close the case in your favor and send you a refund. If we don't hear from you within 10 calendar days, we'll close the case and you won't receive a refund.

If you need more time, just let us know by replying to this message.

We appreciate your cooperation and we look forward to your response so we can resolve this for you.


Sincerely,


eBay Customer Service


I can only hope my bad experience at least will help others on the forum.

Robert
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1823
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert,

I had almost the exact same thing happened to me about 2 months ago.

Filed police report, spent maybe 6 hrs in the while process, for a $99 lens return (because buyer bought the wrong lens mount; he thought my m4/3 lens will fit his Sony without adapter and focus automatically).

What I did was bring my police report, USPS tracking number and my address and phone number to manager at post office. Told her to call me back. They "found" the "lost" package about 3 days after that.

Before they found the package, eBay asked me to upload the police report or some other paper work to them. But their email and web site system is so broken and buggy that there is no way to upload or email a simple photo copy!! I and eBay went back and forth on that. eBay basically told me "none of those is not your fault, but we cannot do anything about that; and we cannot refund your shipping cost".

Based on what eBay told me, here is what I would do in the future:

Spell out my return policy clearly in item description. Yes, if I don't say my own return policy, eBay will use their nonsense policy.

I can say return is not accepted then use my previous bad experience as explanation. This is the best way to avoid any wasted time. Especially because how terrible the eBay system is and my local post office has a reputation of losing mail packages.

Or I can say reasonable return is accepted if I (seller) approve it and return has to be shipped with Signature Confirmation and full insurance; any lost of damage is buyer's responsibility.

And remember to say if buyer is at fault for return, buyer should pay shipping and take full return shipping responsibility. If you don't spell that out, eBay makes seller to pay for shipping, for buyer's fault!

I did not try calling Paypal. I thought eBay bought/owns Payapl, so they should have the same retarded return policy?

Edit:

This is the reason paragraphs I wrote for my eBay listing to explain why I don't accept return any more:

Quote

Sorry, I cannot accept return terms set by eBay's rules. eBay's system has many bugs for returns. Recently, in a "buyer's remorse" case, eBay agreed with me that buyer should pay for shipping, but "they could not find a way to refund" me. So I paid $7.6 for buyer's mistake - buying a micro four thirds lens to fit his Sony E mount camera. Edit: Buyer eventually refunded me, after I messaged him and ask him to act base son his own moral integrity.

What is more, buyer also did not pay for Signature Confirmation for return package; USPS lost my package then found it 3 days later. I had to file a police report, called eBay many times, filed appeal and went to post office in person to find my lost package. I wasted at least 5 hours in the entire process. If you were in my shoes, you would understand my decision of not accepting returns anymore.

Unquote

I don't know if my policy would affect my sale. But I would rather avoid the trouble. There are 9 watchers on my listing, so apparently they don't consider that a turn-off.


Last edited by zzffnn on Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1510
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
Update Paypal and Ebay now recommend that I file a police incident report against the Ebay buyer!...


Now it is typical procedure, used by ebay (maybe couple years already ?) Usually they are using that with buyers, which are stating that item is not received (despite tracking information). Your case is little bit different , but procedure is the same.

My advice - never call to the ebay support in the later afternoon (especially in your case - CA), in most cases calls will be answered by ebay Philippines call center and they are, hmmm, how to express ... Cannot find how to express ...

Do not expect anything from the PP - if there is gap, they will screw you. If there is no gap in you case - they will screw you anyway. Should be very ideal situation (and they can get money back - from the CC company, buyer etc) - to get refund from them. I'm was very happy, when ebay announced that they are going to introduce their own parallel payment system (with collaboration with some EU company). Forget old good times, when they were reputable company
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1538
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saul wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:
Update Paypal and Ebay now recommend that I file a police incident report against the Ebay buyer!...


Now it is typical procedure, used by ebay (maybe couple years already ?) Usually they are using that with buyers, which are stating that item is not received (despite tracking information). Your case is little bit different , but procedure is the same.

My advice - never call to the ebay support in the later afternoon (especially in your case - CA), in most cases calls will be answered by ebay Philippines call center and they are, hmmm, how to express ... Cannot find how to express ...

Do not expect anything from the PP - if there is gap, they will screw you. If there is no gap in you case - they will screw you anyway. Should be very ideal situation (and they can get money back - from the CC company, buyer etc) - to get refund from them. I'm was very happy, when ebay announced that they are going to introduce their own parallel payment system (with collaboration with some EU company). Forget old good times, when they were reputable company


Good tips Saul.

For some reason I have had good results with Paypal but never Ebay. Maybe I am lucky.

In my case, paypal pulled an AMEX charge to pay Ebay and with AMEX, the money is back in your account 100% of the time since they have 100% satisfaction guarantee on all internet purchases. I have had entire vacation packages refunded for poor service/didn't meet standards as promised thanks to AMEX.

I am still going to get a police report just as to make sure.

Robert
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1510
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
... Maybe I am lucky.
...up to some moment Cool

Quote:
In my case, paypal pulled an AMEX charge to pay Ebay and with AMEX, the money is back in your account 100% of the time since they have 100% satisfaction guarantee on all internet purchases. I have had entire vacation packages refunded for poor service/didn't meet standards as promised thanks to AMEX...

Your case was pretty safe - no delivery evidence, so for PP it was not big deal to release your money. If you have your funds back already, I wouldn't bother filling police report. Ebay will compensate the buyer.
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1538
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saul wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:
... Maybe I am lucky.
...up to some moment Cool

Quote:
In my case, paypal pulled an AMEX charge to pay Ebay and with AMEX, the money is back in your account 100% of the time since they have 100% satisfaction guarantee on all internet purchases. I have had entire vacation packages refunded for poor service/didn't meet standards as promised thanks to AMEX...

Your case was pretty safe - no delivery evidence, so for PP it was not big deal to release your money. If you have your funds back already, I wouldn't bother filling police report. Ebay will compensate the buyer.


PayPal told me it's 80-90% a done deal for a refund but it might take a day or two or three so I'm not satisfied just yet.

Robert
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ChrisR
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 8463
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paypal and ebay aren't joined at the hip - just at the tax haven:
https://www.geekwire.com/2015/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ebay-and-paypals-split-and-how-it-impacts-amazon/
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1538
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zzffnn wrote:
Robert,

I had almost the exact same thing happened to me about 2 months ago.

Filed police report, spent maybe 6 hrs in the while process, for a $99 lens return (because buyer bought the wrong lens mount; he thought my m4/3 lens will fit his Sony without adapter and focus automatically).

What I did was bring my police report, USPS tracking number and my address and phone number to manager at post office. Told her to call me back. They "found" the "lost" package about 3 days after that.

Before they found the package, eBay asked me to upload the police report or some other paper work to them. But their email and web site system is so broken and buggy that there is no way to upload or email a simple photo copy!! I and eBay went back and forth on that. eBay basically told me "none of those is not your fault, but we cannot do anything about that; and we cannot refund your shipping cost".


They now ask for a normal email to return the required items.

Quote:


Based on what eBay told me, here is what I would do in the future:

Spell out my return policy clearly in item description. Yes, if I don't say my own return policy, eBay will use their nonsense policy.

I can say return is not accepted then use my previous bad experience as explanation. This is the best way to avoid any wasted time. Especially because how terrible the eBay system is and my local post office has a reputation of losing mail packages.

Or I can say reasonable return is accepted if I (seller) approve it and return has to be shipped with Signature Confirmation and full insurance; any lost of damage is buyer's responsibility.

And remember to say if buyer is at fault for return, buyer should pay shipping and take full return shipping responsibility. If you don't spell that out, eBay makes seller to pay for shipping, for buyer's fault!



That might be a good idea. One big problem with Ebay now I think is they protect the buyer and not the sellers, my case is a good example.

No matter what return policy you have, even no returns, the buyer can claim not as described or significantly not as described and get a refund and even free return shipping.

Quote:


I did not try calling Paypal. I thought eBay bought/owns Payapl, so they should have the same retarded return policy?


PP and Ebay separated with Ebay going to another payment partner in 2021, a Dutch based company.


Quote:

Edit:

This is the reason paragraphs I wrote for my eBay listing to explain why I don't accept return any more:

Quote

Sorry, I cannot accept return terms set by eBay's rules. eBay's system has many bugs for returns. Recently, in a "buyer's remorse" case, eBay agreed with me that buyer should pay for shipping, but "they could not find a way to refund" me. So I paid $7.6 for buyer's mistake - buying a micro four thirds lens to fit his Sony E mount camera. Edit: Buyer eventually refunded me, after I messaged him and ask him to act base son his own moral integrity.

What is more, buyer also did not pay for Signature Confirmation for return package; USPS lost my package then found it 3 days later. I had to file a police report, called eBay many times, filed appeal and went to post office in person to find my lost package. I wasted at least 5 hours in the entire process. If you were in my shoes, you would understand my decision of not accepting returns anymore.


These look good.

Quote:

I don't know if my policy would affect my sale. But I would rather avoid the trouble. There are 9 watchers on my listing, so apparently they don't consider that a turn-off.


Sometimes watchers can just be other sellers not buyers but 9 is a good number.

Thanks for the advice!
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1510
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:

PayPal told me it's 80-90% a done deal for a refund but it might take a day or two or three so I'm not satisfied just yet.

Looks like now you are ok (it is their typical bla bla bla), but wait till you see right numbers in your account ...
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1823
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes seller can argue against "item not as described" claim made by buyer and possibly win it. But eBay definitely favors buyers in general; I have heard this opinion more than once and agree with that.

As alternatives, I also list/buy items on smartphone (local classified) apps, such as OfferUp, 5 Miles, Letgo and Nextdoor. I don't think those apps charge anything, unless seller pays to "boost" listing. Some of those apps requires seller to rate buyer first, then allow buyer to rate seller.

Craiglist is terrible. Lots of unprofessional seller and scammers there.
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elf



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zzffnn wrote:


Edit:

This is the reason paragraphs I wrote for my eBay listing to explain why I don't accept return any more:

Quote

Sorry, I cannot accept return terms set by eBay's rules. eBay's system has many bugs for returns. Recently, in a "buyer's remorse" case, eBay agreed with me that buyer should pay for shipping, but "they could not find a way to refund" me. So I paid $7.6 for buyer's mistake - buying a micro four thirds lens to fit his Sony E mount camera. Edit: Buyer eventually refunded me, after I messaged him and ask him to act base son his own moral integrity.

What is more, buyer also did not pay for Signature Confirmation for return package; USPS lost my package then found it 3 days later. I had to file a police report, called eBay many times, filed appeal and went to post office in person to find my lost package. I wasted at least 5 hours in the entire process. If you were in my shoes, you would understand my decision of not accepting returns anymore.

Unquote


If this is directly from your ebay listing, you may want to proofread it Smile
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