Sony A7Riii Stripes
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- Geopressure
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Sony A7Riii Stripes
I have been encountering a diffuse waffle pattern, visible in JPEG stacks as light colored noise over a dark background. I assume this is the same basic "PDAF" (phase detection auto focus) issue discussed elsewhere. Admittedly this is not a complete show stopper as it can largely be edited out, however it is annoying. It seems to me that an expensive camera should not display such issues. I am debating whether it warrants returning the camera and looking for a better option.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Hmm, I never got so far with the camera that I noticed this problem. Perhaps another good reason I would have sent it back!
BTW, I think I read that the A7RII has only the multi-port for tethering, and no USB port for triggering, but the A7RIII has the additional USB port. Is this true, or do both cameras have both ports? I'm considering getting an A7RII, but if I have to dance at midnight in a full moon to get it to trigger and tether same time, I will pass.
BTW, I think I read that the A7RII has only the multi-port for tethering, and no USB port for triggering, but the A7RIII has the additional USB port. Is this true, or do both cameras have both ports? I'm considering getting an A7RII, but if I have to dance at midnight in a full moon to get it to trigger and tether same time, I will pass.
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I believe you are correct about the ports. The A7Riii does indeed have both a USB C port for tethering, and a Sony USB "multiport" for shutter triggering. It works well with the Wemacro rail as long as you have a Sony connector cable.
In my previous post Beatsy explained that he uses an Infrared remote shutter trigger on the A7Rii and has had good luck with that.
In my previous post Beatsy explained that he uses an Infrared remote shutter trigger on the A7Rii and has had good luck with that.
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It is speculated that the concentric waffle pattern is due to Sony's sharpening algorithms. This is visible in many stacks posted on our community. It can be seen in some of Beatsy's stacks too, as well as a friend of mine who uses an a7r2.
May I ask for these?
1. Attach lens cap to lens
2. Take 2 dark field exposures, 5 minutes and 10 minutes. MAKE SURE long exposure noise reduction is OFF
Send the uncompressed raws to my email: macrocosmos1949@gmail.com
This will allow me to pinpoint the issue.
I will post the a7m3 raws when I get home. They look truly... gross. It's Sony's firmware issue for sure.
I didn't really want to make such things public due to fear of getting attacked by people. Luckily things like this isn't present in our community.
May I ask for these?
1. Attach lens cap to lens
2. Take 2 dark field exposures, 5 minutes and 10 minutes. MAKE SURE long exposure noise reduction is OFF
Send the uncompressed raws to my email: macrocosmos1949@gmail.com
This will allow me to pinpoint the issue.
I will post the a7m3 raws when I get home. They look truly... gross. It's Sony's firmware issue for sure.
I didn't really want to make such things public due to fear of getting attacked by people. Luckily things like this isn't present in our community.
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Above is the original ARW file, below is the converted DNG using lightroom.
Software is Maxim DL.
I do not understand why the ARW shows up as these stripes. Maybe Maxim DL cannot read it properly?
On the converted DNG, one can clearly see a huge cluster of pixels on the left. This is due to either shuttercurtain lightleaks or sensor luminescence. It's not an isolated case. Nikon D750's lightleak got sensationalised, and it's a rare occurrence; I do not understand why the mainstream isn't pointing this problem out, which is a definite occurrence for extended exposures.
Details:
Camera: a7m3
Exposure time is 606 seconds.
Lowest native ISO possible
Dark field exposure
25 degrees room temperature
Here's 2 converted JPEGs,
Top: +100 highlights
Bottom: +100 highlights +3EV exposure (to exaggerate the issue mentioned above)
View full size here:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1875/304 ... 4695_o.jpg
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1860/304 ... bd8e_o.jpg
To those asking why does a 10-minute exposure matter, think of it this way:
A 10-minute exposure is equivalent to 120 5-second ones.
For people who do not use strobes/speedlights, the exposure time is anywhere from 1 second to 5 seconds or above. For example, my stacks are a sequence of 5-second exposures. Usually 150+ raws per stack.
What happens? Hot pixels really do become an issue, and stacking may or may not help, or worst case, exaggerate the problem. Then comes software sharpening, treating these pixels as actual information, which are sharpened. This cause a lot of issues.
It will help if the OP or anyone is willing to send me dark field raws. An example of this "diffuse waffle pattern" would be greatly appreciated too. I've seen some of these actually, but I do not know if it is exactly what the OP is referring to or not. We all have our own ways to describe such oddities.
~ MC
Software is Maxim DL.
I do not understand why the ARW shows up as these stripes. Maybe Maxim DL cannot read it properly?
On the converted DNG, one can clearly see a huge cluster of pixels on the left. This is due to either shuttercurtain lightleaks or sensor luminescence. It's not an isolated case. Nikon D750's lightleak got sensationalised, and it's a rare occurrence; I do not understand why the mainstream isn't pointing this problem out, which is a definite occurrence for extended exposures.
Details:
Camera: a7m3
Exposure time is 606 seconds.
Lowest native ISO possible
Dark field exposure
25 degrees room temperature
Here's 2 converted JPEGs,
Top: +100 highlights
Bottom: +100 highlights +3EV exposure (to exaggerate the issue mentioned above)
View full size here:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1875/304 ... 4695_o.jpg
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1860/304 ... bd8e_o.jpg
To those asking why does a 10-minute exposure matter, think of it this way:
A 10-minute exposure is equivalent to 120 5-second ones.
For people who do not use strobes/speedlights, the exposure time is anywhere from 1 second to 5 seconds or above. For example, my stacks are a sequence of 5-second exposures. Usually 150+ raws per stack.
What happens? Hot pixels really do become an issue, and stacking may or may not help, or worst case, exaggerate the problem. Then comes software sharpening, treating these pixels as actual information, which are sharpened. This cause a lot of issues.
It will help if the OP or anyone is willing to send me dark field raws. An example of this "diffuse waffle pattern" would be greatly appreciated too. I've seen some of these actually, but I do not know if it is exactly what the OP is referring to or not. We all have our own ways to describe such oddities.
~ MC
Macro_Cosmos,
Interesting stuff about the Sony and the strips (seems the Sony Fanfolks always bashing Nikon, but you don't much in the reverse).
Is this caused by the phase detect focus sensors on the chip?
Will be interesting to see if the new Nikon Z6 and Z7 Mirrorless cameras have any of these types of issues.
BTW don't think you can say that one long exposure Tlong is "exactly" like N shorter exposures Tshort, where Tshort is Tlong/N. The reason being the readout noise when a pixel is digitized (readout) happens every readout. So Tshort would have the result accumulation of N readout noise effects (if non-correlated should follow rootN), where Tlong only has only one read noise effect. Depending on how much noise the sensor produces this may or may not have an effect of the final resultant image noise level.
Anyway just a thought and thanks for showing the Sony image artifacts,
Best,
Interesting stuff about the Sony and the strips (seems the Sony Fanfolks always bashing Nikon, but you don't much in the reverse).
Is this caused by the phase detect focus sensors on the chip?
Will be interesting to see if the new Nikon Z6 and Z7 Mirrorless cameras have any of these types of issues.
BTW don't think you can say that one long exposure Tlong is "exactly" like N shorter exposures Tshort, where Tshort is Tlong/N. The reason being the readout noise when a pixel is digitized (readout) happens every readout. So Tshort would have the result accumulation of N readout noise effects (if non-correlated should follow rootN), where Tlong only has only one read noise effect. Depending on how much noise the sensor produces this may or may not have an effect of the final resultant image noise level.
Anyway just a thought and thanks for showing the Sony image artifacts,
Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
~Mike
The classic stripe problem is different from this, and depends critically on how a scene is lit, and also on the lens; it would not show up in long-exposure dark frames. It is almost certainly due to the PDAF pixels. It occurs in normal short exposures. As entry points to the literature on this subject, see:
http://blog.kasson.com/a9/pdaf-striping-on-the-a9/
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riii/sony-a7i ... ping-faqs/
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61073358
Note that Nikon cameras also can show this (Edit:: IF I RECALL CORRECTLY).
http://blog.kasson.com/a9/pdaf-striping-on-the-a9/
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riii/sony-a7i ... ping-faqs/
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61073358
Note that Nikon cameras also can show this (Edit:: IF I RECALL CORRECTLY).
Last edited by Lou Jost on Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
The stripes with flickering light and fully electronic shutter are a third problem, and that is due to the light source rather than the camera. Nothing to do with either the PDAF problem or hotspot problems.
When you say the Nikon Z has a problem, do you mean banding with certain light sources, or PDAF ghosting?
When you say the Nikon Z has a problem, do you mean banding with certain light sources, or PDAF ghosting?