www.photomacrography.net :: View topic - The lenses we use
www.photomacrography.net Forum Index
An online community dedicated to the practices of photomacrography, close-up and macro photography, and photomicrography.
Photomacrography Front Page Amateurmicrography Front Page
Old Forums/Galleries
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
The lenses we use
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 19, 20, 21, 22  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Equipment Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4829
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear forum members, no need to be rude.
Here a PMG.net we are proud of maintaining an educated and collegial level of discussion.

This implies avoiding ad hominem arguments but also to avoid arguing in base of preconceptions against solid data and well founded theories when we debate on scientific or technical subjects. In this aspect we are different from many other internet fora.
Saying thank you when someone is trying to help one seems adequate even when disagreeing.

I don't believe that such a fans army exists. Fanboyism is not welcome in any form.

Rik has made an important effort to make things clear both with fine theoretical analysis and experimental samples and many of us really appreciate his analysis, he has spend lots of time in the task although this has only ended useful for people who have the mind open enough to follow the reasoning lines.
If the conclusion is formerly established nothing can change it. No need of further discussion, IMHO

As forum admin I want also to note that the original thread was about The lenses we use and the original purpose has quickly deviated to a very different discussion, this is what we call hijacking a thread and this is the second time when Justwalking member has done it. Please avoid doing it in the future, to discuss a different subject please create a new thread with the relevant title.
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Justwalking



Joined: 10 Jun 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:

As forum admin I want also to note that the original thread was about The lenses we use and the original purpose has quickly derived to a very different discussion, this is what we call hijacking a thread and this is the second time when Justwalking member has done it. Please avoid doing it in the future, to discuss a different subject please create a new thread with the relevant title.


Can't agree that is unbiased glance about who start this hijacking first.
Up to Rik for creating new thread about this.
Regards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 2332
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is responsible for "hijacking" the thread (ie taking it in a direction different from the OP), it is me, but no worries since I started it! The thread then morphed along multiple lines, most of which I found interesting.

Now, when JW brought in information on DOF and such by quoting an outside article, I did try to get him to start a new thread on that subject. See way back on page 9, where I said

"Hmm, a very quick look shows that article is full of misinformation. Might be worth a discussion on separate thread"

In spite of the recommendation, he continued, and we ended up with many more pages on the subject of equivalent images, depth of field tradeoffs, etc. All excellent stuff from Rik and others, but indeed this could have been more accessible in its own thread rather than buried within this one.

That said, the long discussion prodded me toward doing some work on Super-Resolution, and ultimately toward realizing my entire single-image quest was too limiting. Rik's hinting back to stitching as a solution to the quest, and JW's pointing me to EasyZoom hosting site, compelled me to test stitching once again. Better armed with years of learning and experimentation under my belt, I made progress toward the goal I would not have made without the additional discussion.

Back to the question in the OP...we did get some excellent inputs on lenses, objectives, and applications from Rik, JohnnyM, and ChrisR, so thank you guys for coming back to the beginning.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4829
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray, I agree that the thread is plenty of good info and interesting ideas in several lines but I must disagree in one point: you can't hijack your own thread Very Happy
It's normal to deviate from the original purpose during a discussion, not so much to take a so big part of another member thread towards a different topic, like the DOF / sensor size discussion.
_________________
Pau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 3710
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justwalking, my trust in Rik's understanding of DOF is based on (among other things) the fact that his depth of field tables which he constructed from theory match my experience (and everyone else's) when stacking, where knowledge of DOF is critical to get the correct step size. Those tables cover a wide range of magnification and all common sensor sizes. Like most of us, I use these tables every day. Every stack tests his theory. It works. Rik really does understand DOF.

http://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacker/docs/tables/macromicrodof
_________________
Lou Jost
www.ecomingafoundation.wordpress.com
www.loujost.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Justwalking



Joined: 10 Jun 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Justwalking, my trust in Rik's understanding of DOF is based on (among other things) the fact that his depth of field tables which he constructed from theory match my experience (and everyone else's) when stacking, where knowledge of DOF is critical to get the correct step size.

Lou, my answer in the last Rik's link.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 3710
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justwalking, I do not know what link you refer to. Could you clarify?

Your recent replies to Rik imply that he doesn't know how depth of field works in the macro realm:

Quote:
First of all it is not in the macro range and what happens there yoy can read at this link


Yet I referred you to a table that Rik generated, which applies to magnifications up to 20x. This table works well and is confirmed by everyone here. So how can you keep saying that Rik doesn't understand DOF in the macro realm??? That's his specialty.
_________________
Lou Jost
www.ecomingafoundation.wordpress.com
www.loujost.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Justwalking



Joined: 10 Jun 2018
Posts: 137
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Justwalking, I do not know what link you refer to. Could you clarify?


There
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37669
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 2332
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been pondering the use of FF for stitching coin images. The 6-stitch diagram I drew before makes sense, especially since the 3x2 pattern results in a square panorama, making the stitching very efficient. It will also result in a very large file! But looking at the 100% zoom on the files I posted to EasyZoom, I really don't need more zoom to document coins as I would like, and in fact the zoom is already a bit beyond my requirement. I was looking for more than I could get from APS-C (~0.7x), and figured that single images on FF would be a little low but probably acceptable at ~1.2x. At 3.3x I think it will be overkill.

So I took a look at a simpler option of 2 FF shots, stitched vertically. By my estimation, I can end up with an 8400x8400 final image, using 1.7:1 magnification. I throw away some vertical space, but I can use the wastage to ensure the edges of the coin are away from the corners of the frame. Also, turns out the 95PN works superbly at 1.7:1, so I have excellent optics for this application. Here is the pattern:



Last edited by ray_parkhurst on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 3710
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How big is the image circle on that PN? If it is much bigger than 43mm, you might consider using a shifting bellows to make your two pictures. Keep the lens stationary and shift the camera. Then you'd have no problem with moving highlights. I showed how to do this for MFT here:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31437&highlight=
_________________
Lou Jost
www.ecomingafoundation.wordpress.com
www.loujost.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 2332
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
How big is the image circle on that PN? If it is much bigger than 43mm, you might consider using a shifting bellows to make your two pictures. Keep the lens stationary and shift the camera. Then you'd have no problem with moving highlights. I showed how to do this for MFT here:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31437&highlight=


The 95PN is same as 105PN on the 35mm side, 64mm. But using the stitch plan I shared, I would not need to shift very much at all. If I center the coin, then shift + and -, I'd need 51mm for the frame, but in reality only around 33mm is needed to be high quality since the coin is round. Interesting option!

edited to add: just looked more carefully at the stitching plan and indeed I would need ~44mm image circle, not 33mm. the 33mm is for the finished image, but the individual images push farther toward the corners unless I am willing to shift in both directions. Luckily 44mm is not a problem for the 95PN, at least by spec. Still to be proven.


Last edited by ray_parkhurst on Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 3710
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's usually the way I do it, centered and then +/-.
_________________
Lou Jost
www.ecomingafoundation.wordpress.com
www.loujost.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 2143
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
How big is the image circle on that PN? If it is much bigger than 43mm, you might consider using a shifting bellows to make your two pictures. Keep the lens stationary and shift the camera. Then you'd have no problem with moving highlights. I showed how to do this for MFT here:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31437&highlight=


Lou,

Interesting, somehow I missed this thread. This isn't a tilt-shift lens I presume, so what kind of adapter/bellows or fixture allows you to move the Nikon lens WRT the camera body?

Best,
_________________
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 2332
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
That's usually the way I do it, centered and then +/-.


I only see an expensive adapter that is capable of going +/-, the Kipon T/S, like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kipon-Tilt-and-Shift-Adapter-for-M42-Screw-Mount-Lens-to-Sony-E-Mount-Camera-NEX/111143019925

They also make one that is shift only, but it is also one-sided shifting, like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kipon-Shift-Adapter-for-M42-Screw-Mount-Lens-to-Canon-EOS-M-Mirrorless-Camera/121466097176?hash=item1c47f18e18:g:rDQAAOSwEppURdP8

What do you use Lou, something like this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fotodiox-Objektiv-Shift-Adapter-Pro-Nikon-G-Linse-fur-Sony-Nex-Kamera/273337654491?epid=1548609345&hash=item3fa4319cdb:g:X4IAAOSwv-NWaybj
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 2332
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I just bought a mjkzz Stack & Stitch controller to automate my new obsession. I had talked with my wife about writing the code, but mawyatt pointed me to the mjkzz offerings and I pulled the trigger. The system has only a single USB connection, which is much better than what I was planning using 3 mjkzz controllers in parallel.

I have already put together my XY table, so I am ready to plug it all in when the package arrives. I will start a new thread once I get it working and post my first stacked image.

One final note...I have been working with the XY stage in manual mode, and I am shocked at how sensitive ICE is to having the images be perfectly coordinated. Any tiny amount that the X or Y are out of kilter vs the sensor seems to throw it for a loop. Are there programs that do a better job at alignments?

edited to add: I bought the controller before Lou's excellent input on shift-stitching. I imagine I will go that way when I upgrade to FF, but for now I'm moving forward with the XY stepper approach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Equipment Discussions All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 19, 20, 21, 22  Next
Page 20 of 22

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group