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4X LENS TEST PART 3 - ENLARGING LENSES
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 662
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: 4X LENS TEST PART 3 - ENLARGING LENSES Reply with quote

After some delays working on the lightbox image display function on my site, that I gave up on BTW, I finally have part 3 of my 4X test up.

Some of the results surprised me, they are interesting for sure!

There was one clear winner in my eyes and it was the cheapest lens in the group, the most expensive lenses gave me the poorest image quality at 4x.



This is a list of the lenses:

Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/2 Xenon in metal B00 barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/4 Componon in metal B00 barrel
Rodenstock 25mm f/4 Omegaron (Identical to Rodagon)
Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/4 Componon in plastic BKV-L barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 35mm f/4 Componon in plastic BKV-L barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/2.8 Componon in metal B-V barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 45mm f/4 APO-Componon in metal B-V barrel



https://www.closeuphotography.com/4x-lens-test-part-3

Please let me know what you think of the results and if you find any errors or issue please email or PM me.

Robert
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 217
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As always thanks for your effort for this very useful comparison.
Your contribution to community is outstanding Robert.
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Omer
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1395
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert,

Thanks for the effort and posting all this information. Think you've probably tested just about every possible lens for use around 4X! Lots of work involved, so we all own a hearty "Thanks Dude!!"

Best & Happy New Year!!

Mike
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 662
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
Robert,

Thanks for the effort and posting all this information. Think you've probably tested just about every possible lens for use around 4X! Lots of work involved, so we all own a hearty "Thanks Dude!!"

Best & Happy New Year!!

Mike



Thanks Mike.

It might seem like I tested a lot so far, but the results for the best/favorite lenses are still coming, Canon 20 + 35 MP, MPE-E 65, and the Tominon 17!

BTW, I am about 80% of the way done with Part 4.

*Spoiler alert* One downside? I don't think we will see Xenon f/2s or Tominon 17s sell for $25 anymore after all the results are out there.

All the best for the new year!

Robert
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
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Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
mawyatt wrote:
Robert,

Thanks for the effort and posting all this information. Think you've probably tested just about every possible lens for use around 4X! Lots of work involved, so we all own a hearty "Thanks Dude!!"

Best & Happy New Year!!

Mike



Thanks Mike.

It might seem like I tested a lot so far, but the results for the best/favorite lenses are still coming, Canon 20 + 35 MP, MPE-E 65, and the Tominon 17!

BTW, I am about 80% of the way done with Part 4.

*Spoiler alert* One downside? I don't think we will see Xenon f/2s or Tominon 17s sell for $25 anymore after all the results are out there.

All the best for the new year!

Robert


You are welcome sir!!

Well I hope my Mitutoyo 5X at 135mm on the Zeiss f3.5 or Vivitar still holds it's own around 4X. I know the AmScope 4X wasn't quite as good, but it still a great bargain IMO.

I don't need to purchase another lens Rolling Eyes

Best & Happy New Year soon,

Mike
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ChrisR
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Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 7689
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do wonder how a Componon 28mm f/4 would behave if one removed its obviously limiting maximum aperture.

I bought one for a song because the seller announced, "The iris doesn't open properly"
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 662
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:



Well I hope my Mitutoyo 5X at 135mm on the Zeiss f3.5 or Vivitar still holds it's own around 4X. ...


Forgot to mention the Mitutoyo 5X, I did shoot that objective for part 5. The Mity 5x is really my reference lens and has always been a favorite!

For 2018 I am putting together a 5X comparison, maybe at the same time as the tube lens test. So far I have some nice glass to compare to the Mitutoyo.

All the best,

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
I do wonder how a Componon 28mm f/4 would behave if one removed its obviously limiting maximum aperture.

I bought one for a song because the seller announced, "The iris doesn't open properly"


There are some rare Componon 28s out there that do open all the way.

In 2013 or 2014 I owned a 28mm Componon that opened one more stop, it was in an older metal barrel. Performance wasn't anything special if I remember correctly, so I ended up selling it for a premium, $230-240, and made a nice profit.

Found two images showing three 28 Componon lenses all wide open. The middle is labeled as an f/4 but went a lot wider.

Is it me or does the f/4 iris look a lot larger diameter than the f/2.8 on the right?






Robert


Last edited by RobertOToole on Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
I do wonder how a Componon 28mm f/4 would behave if one removed its obviously limiting maximum aperture.

I bought one for a song because the seller announced, "The iris doesn't open properly"


What would be interesting is to see Schneider's Spec/MTF sheets for the Xenon, and compare them to the 28 Componon info that I have.

They might be very similar.

Robert
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typestar



Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 130
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:12 am    Post subject: thankyou, again Reply with quote

Dear Robert,

Let me also say thankyou again for all your efforts and the comparisons +information.
Glad to see, that the SK 2/28 xenon works so well and a/my old metal-barell Xenon 2/35 mm could play in the same range (unfortunately not covering APS-C size).
Reassuring, that "APO", again, must not be a "guarantee" for the sharpness or power of a lens...
(as we see from the Apo-companon 4/45 mm) - as there is also a SK Apo-Companon 2.8/40 mm (MTF values are worse in comparison to the 4/45) yould you think, perhaps the higher NA would give other results (?)

I am curious to see your further huge test of the high-magnifaction lenses pulled down to 4x ...

ALL the best wishes for the New Year,

Christian





Best & Happy New Year!!


Last edited by typestar on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:50 am; edited 2 times in total
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RobertOToole



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: thankyou, again Reply with quote

typestar wrote:
Dear Robert,

Let me also say thankyou again for all your efforts and the comparisons +information.

(as we see from the Apo-companon 4/45 mm) - as there is also a SK Apo-Companon 2.8/40 mm (MTF values are worse in comparison to the 4/45) yould you think, perhaps the higher NA would give other results (?)

Best & Happy New Year!!


Thank you Typestar.

Yes, the 2.8/40 mm maximum aperture sounds promising but it is rated for less magnification than the 4/45 and SK's own MTF data doesn't look decent until f/5.6 so the lens is a non-starter for 4x.

My S-K APO Comp 90/4.5 linescan lens specs say that it is optimized for closeups compared to the normal consumer version and in retro the recommended range is 3-5X!

Sounds promising right? Thats what I thought!




After spending way too much time, just getting to lens to hit 4X, I found the image looks as you would expect with 2.367 miles of extension! I'll share the images from this lens in part 4.

My point was that this lens is rated for use at 3-5x and performance was poor, after this experience, I have a pretty good idea in my mind how a lens like the 2.8/40 rated for only 0.10X, would perform at 4x, it won't be pretty Very Happy

All the best for the new year!

Robert
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typestar



Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 130
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: thankyou, again Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
quote="typestar"]... and in retro the recommended range is 3-5X! Sounds promising right? Thats what I thought!



After spending way too much time, just getting to lens to hit 4X, I found the image looks as you would expect with 2.367 miles of extension! ....


Robert, for me it looks as 5.000 miles of extension Smile So, not really "sexy"...
Thankyou for showing us this exotic result ...
So way to much time of your appreciated work kept with such -- only because some "specs" keep our interest...

All the best to you,

Christian


Last edited by typestar on Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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glmory



Joined: 30 Dec 2016
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I got out of this was that I shouldn’t be using enlarging lenses at 4X. Stick with other types of lenses. Was there something I missed?
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RobertOToole



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glmory wrote:
What I got out of this was that I shouldn’t be using enlarging lenses at 4X. Stick with other types of lenses. Was there something I missed?


That's about it, and it took me a lot of effort to find that out the hard way for myself Rolling Eyes

On the internet its popular to post that you can get great results at 3-5x, or 5-10X with enlarging lenses. That is not true from what I see.

I chose 4X for the comparison since its about the limit of normal and enlarging lenses and where objectives do very well.

The Xenon was nice though! Very Happy

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glmory wrote:
What I got out of this was that I shouldn’t be using enlarging lenses at 4X. Stick with other types of lenses. Was there something I missed?


BTW I should mention in the next part of the test, that I am almost finished with now, there are lenses that work great at 4x and don't cost much more than the enlarging lenses.

Canon Mp-20
Canon Mp-35
Tominon 17

These can be found for $20-50 for the Tominon and maybe 200 for the MPs and these work great across the whole frame!

Stay tuned for part 4!

Robert
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