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4X Lens test part 4: high-magnification lenses

 
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 916
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: 4X Lens test part 4: high-magnification lenses Reply with quote

Finally part 4 of my 4X comparison is up on my site. Take a look when you get a chance and please email or PM me if you find any errors or typos.

There were no real lemons in this test but the Tominon 35 was not in the same class (I tested two of these for the test) but the 17 mm was one of the best!

The lenses in the comparison:

Minolta 25mm f/2.5 Micro Bellows Lens
Canon Macrophoto 20mm f/3.5 Bellows Lens
Canon Macrophoto 35mm f/2.8 Bellows Lens
Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo Lens
Noritsu 32mm f/4 Lens
Yashionon Tomioka 32mm f/3.5 Lens
Tominon 17mm f/4 Lens
Tominon 35mm f/4.5 Lens


There are full size versions of these side-by-side crop comparison images on my site.


https://www.closeuphotography.com/4x-lens-test-part-4










Comments, questions are welcome.

Thanks

Robert
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lothman



Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Stuttgart/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Robert!!!

I recently switched from Pentax to Sony alpha and was thinking of getting the MPE-65 but know I'll stick with the Canon 35 and the Tominons.

regards
Lothar
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1641
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice test Robert! I've never fully tested my Canon 20mm nor Tominon 17mm since their focal lengths are so short, and thus difficult to set up for lower magnifications. Complicating matters is the fact that the 17mm lens has a built-in extension that makes it even tougher. Interestingly, the lens you tested has a shorter extension than most of the ones I've seen or owned. I did see a shorter one like yours for sale on eBay recently (sold for $35):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tominon-17mm-f4-lens-/292352688020?hash=item441193ff94%3Ag%3AFMUAAOSw9mpaIMYa&nma=true&si=4X6ztaoqmI0mvyuFGBoZR7TtJJA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

But most of the ones I've seen have an extra 17mm of extension, like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOMINON-1-4-F-17mm-LENS/232320720455?hash=item361764de47:g:LNIAAOSww9xZCILT


The ones like yours have ~20mm extension, and to get 4:1 would need additional 65mm extension. Given the 44mm register distance on Canon EF, this leaves 21mm to get to 4:1. So, no bellows, but not impossible to get 4:1 with careful use of adapters/extensions.

For my lens, I can achieve 4:1 only by mounting directly to the Canon camera, with a reasonable length adapter, no extensions.

The situation is better for the E-mount system you are using. The 18mm register distance for E-Mount gives another 26mm of extension available. This is still not enough to allow bellows to be used on the lenses with longer extension, but perhaps the short extension version would work for some bellows.

So folks wanting to use the 17mm lens at 4:1 should be aware of the differences between the lenses, and the specific requirements/difficulties in getting as low as 4:1 magnification with your particular camera.

All that said, I'm pleasantly surprised that the 17mm has good coverage at such low magnification.

Similar difficulties exist for the Canon 20mm, but that extra 3mm of focal length gives much more flexibility. Plus. the 20mm has minimal built-in extension, so an additional extension of ~56mm is needed to get 4:1 on Canon. That's a feasible extension for shorter bellows or reasonable fixed extension, and the situation is even better for E-mount, with ~82mm additional extension available.

In my shootout at 4-6x I did back in 2013, I shot the 20mm at ~5x due to difficulty in achieving lower mag in my system. I did not even include the 17mm as I was not able to come close to 4x with it in my setup.
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 916
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lothman wrote:
Thanks Robert!!!

I recently switched from Pentax to Sony alpha and was thinking of getting the MPE-65 but know I'll stick with the Canon 35 and the Tominons.

regards
Lothar


Thanks for taking time to comment Lothar. Glad I could help.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 916
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Very nice test Robert! I've never fully tested my Canon 20mm nor Tominon 17mm since their focal lengths are so short, and thus difficult to set up for lower magnifications. Complicating matters is the fact that the 17mm lens has a built-in extension that makes it even tougher.


Using my Sony instead of my Nikon helps, 46mm vs 18mm register (flange focal distance) also I found really cheap and thin ($3 and 3mm thick!) E-Mount adapters so that helps to get close. BTW that is one of the main reasons I decided to pick up the Sony A6300 and try it out for macro, it opens up new possibilities thanks to the register.


ray_parkhurst wrote:
Interestingly, the lens you tested has a shorter extension than most of the ones I've seen or owned. I did see a shorter one like yours for sale on eBay recently (sold for $35).


Yes, true,I did have short and long versions. I was able to get the long extension version to 4x also.

BTW I had 3 Tomioka 17s and they all tested differently!

ray_parkhurst wrote:

The ones like yours have ~20mm extension, and to get 4:1 would need additional 65mm extension. Given the 44mm register distance on Canon EF, this leaves 21mm to get to 4:1. So, no bellows, but not impossible to get 4:1 with careful use of adapters/extensions.

For my lens, I can achieve 4:1 only by mounting directly to the Canon camera, with a reasonable length adapter, no extensions.


The situation is better for the E-mount system you are using. The 18mm register distance for E-Mount gives another 26mm of extension available. This is still not enough to allow bellows to be used on the lenses with longer extension, but perhaps the short extension version would work for some bellows.

So folks wanting to use the 17mm lens at 4:1 should be aware of the differences between the lenses, and the specific requirements/difficulties in getting as low as 4:1 magnification with your particular camera.

All that said, I'm pleasantly surprised that the 17mm has good coverage at such low magnification.


The Nikon F-mount is even longer than EF, 46 vs 44.

I will add a note about that to the page on my site, thanks.


ray_parkhurst wrote:
Similar difficulties exist for the Canon 20mm, but that extra 3mm of focal length gives much more flexibility. Plus. the 20mm has minimal built-in extension, so an additional extension of ~56mm is needed to get 4:1 on Canon. That's a feasible extension for shorter bellows or reasonable fixed extension, and the situation is even better for E-mount, with ~82mm additional extension available.


Yes, true, the MPs are a lot easier to mount.

I like to use old Canon M39 tubes to dial in the magnification or framing I need.

ray_parkhurst wrote:

In my shootout at 4-6x I did back in 2013, I shot the 20mm at ~5x due to difficulty in achieving lower mag in my system. I did not even include the 17mm as I was not able to come close to 4x with it in my setup.



Interesting, and I do remember that post, its helped a lot of people over the years, including me!

Thanks for the notes and comments Ray.

All the best,

Robert
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1595
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert,

Thanks for all the great work in characterizing all these lenses. This will become a reference for reviewing and deciding which lens to purchase or use.

Best,

Mike
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 188
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole:

Another great macro-test!

Fortunately I already have a 17mm Tominon at home before price rises Very Happy

Although with the Nikon dslr camera I can not go lower than 5X with the long barrel MP-4 model it covers quite well the full format, only a little bit soft at corners, so is possible get a similar but not exact equivalent frame compared with a aps-c camera at 4X.
My sample exhibit a little blue halo around the highlights, blue-green rings in defocused areas, similar to a well achromatic microscope lens but lateral CAs are invisibles without software corrections like in your tests Very Happy
The old "maroon" lens coating probably are the reason for a little low contrast in some circumstances, shotting "one frame" photos in not perfect controlled ambient.

Best Regards

Joaquim
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 916
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim F. wrote:
RobertOToole:

Another great macro-test!


Thanks of the nice comment.

Joaquim F. wrote:

Fortunately I already have a 17mm Tominon at home before price rises Very Happy

Although with the Nikon dslr camera I can not go lower than 5X with the long barrel MP-4 model it covers quite well the full format, only a little bit soft at corners, so is possible get a similar but not exact equivalent frame compared with a aps-c camera at 4X.
My sample exhibit a little blue halo around the highlights, blue-green rings in defocused areas, similar to a well achromatic microscope lens but lateral CAs are invisibles without software corrections like in your tests Very Happy
The old "maroon" lens coating probably are the reason for a little low contrast in some circumstances, shotting "one frame" photos in not perfect controlled ambient.


Good to hear that you have a good one. I had 3 x 17mm Tominons, and they all performed a little differently. I am just glad I collected enough so I was able to end up with one nice copy. Otherwise I would have missed the nice 4x performance all together!

BTW, the Tomioka history is interesting, like Cosina, they made lenses for Carl Zeiss Japan, including the *T lenses, their top of the line lenses in the film days.

All the best,

Robert
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