Reflected light rather than diffusers...

Yawns · Post by **Yawns** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:34 am

Does anyone know something about using reflected light, rather than diffusers?

I did a few Google searches but I can’t find anything myself ... so if any of you could direct me for some links about the subject I would be grateful.

A couple of years ago when I was starting to photostack I remember a friend showing me a link to an article.. I just remember a picture of an olman using white cards to bounce a couple of times the light from the flashes , before the light got to the insect. If I remember well he was photographing for a scientific paper… since then I only saw people using conical, cylindrical diffusers around the insect .. milk bottles, ping-pong balls whatever …

Last weekend I started to experiment, figuring it myself, basically using 2 panels between the lens and the subject and a little piece of card / scenario to prevent the flash to hit the lens directly …
I got so pleased with the results I would like to learn and explore more, but I’m not finding anything relevant in the web…

With the simple layout I am using, I am getting well distributed light allover the subject, a lot of light underneath the insect and I am doing with only one flash (at just 1/64) what I was doing before with 3 …

Here a few examples and ilustrations…

4X

10X

Please share some links for reflected light techniques ...if you have them .. I would like to explore other possibilities and learn more about it (the shortest way .. experimenting is fun but takes a load of time and I’m not retired yet …

Thank you,
António

JohnyM · Post by **JohnyM** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:54 am

You have some nice setup and effect here.
I have no links for, but You might be interested in looking into papers about "Lieberkuhn illumination" and half-mirror techniques. Both of those could be bought for Nikon Multiphot system as seen in this:
http://www.nikonland.eu/forum/uploads/7 ... b3cc7d.jpg
I advize You to look for Multiphot PDF for details.
From theory, Lieberkuhn leave you with some unlit areas (i think we can observe that in centre of insect eyes on your shots), while half-mirror takes away 3/4 of your light. Lieberkuhn, thanks to slight angle will retain dimensionality and slight shadows + highlights, while Half-Mirror can only use oblique light slit to get relief effect.
Never tried myself, but i've heard that 45degree angled cover slip does the job as half mirror.

mawyatt · Post by **mawyatt** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:09 pm

Yawns,

Very interesting lighting scheme.

I sometimes require absolutely uniform lighting in the chips that I shoot. Over time I've evolved to a system of dual light tents, one inside the other and multiple strobe light sources around the outside of the larger tent. Sometime these light sources are double diffused with soft boxes. The idea is to create light for all angles with uniform intensity. It makes for a large and inefficient system but does work well.

Thanks for showing this concept, very intriguing indeed!!

BTW nice images too

Best,

Mike

Yawns · Post by **Yawns** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:51 pm

Thank you JohnyM
and thank you for your prompt reply . I will have a good look about Lieberkhun in the weeked when I am more relaxed and at home.

António

Yawns · Post by **Yawns** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:59 pm

Thank Mawyatt ..
I also got very surprised when i saw the first results... it's such a awkward simple thing. I was just doing this to kill time and beause I am bored to shoot the same things the same way all the time.

You mention double diffusion .. I use it a lot too... sometimes even 5X diffusion in thin layers instead of a single thicker layer ... here is a picture of a diffuser i did I use a lot ...
I have several small diffusers and I try to have a last layer very close to the subject .. and then I add the "onion" canopy to erase all the hotspots ...

Chris S. · Post by **Chris S.** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:40 pm

Yawns, I'm glad you brought this topic to the surface again. The use of reflected light, rather than diffused light, is something we don't emphasize nearly enough.

See my comments in this prior thread.

--Chris S.

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:32 pm

It's not shown in most of their advertising literature, but reflected lighting is a standard mode of operation in the Macroscopic Solutions systems. I think that may be all I've ever seen them demonstrate at conferences.

They even have some custom "diffusers" that are actually used like Lieberkühn reflectors, for example http://macroscopicsolutions.com/product ... 65mm-1-5x/ and similar for Mitutoyo objectives

--Rik

ray_parkhurst · Post by **ray_parkhurst** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:58 pm

Here's a lighting setup I use occasionally.

It produces very diffuse and even illumination, but with foil as a reflector it still retains some luster from specular reflections. I have also used a similar system with white reflectors and they eliminate the specular qualities.

mawyatt · Post by **mawyatt** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:47 am

Yawns wrote:Thank Mawyatt ..
I also got very surprised when i saw the first results... it's such a awkward simple thing. I was just doing this to kill time and beause I am bored to shoot the same things the same way all the time.

You mention double diffusion .. I use it a lot too... sometimes even 5X diffusion in thin layers instead of a single thicker layer ... here is a picture of a diffuser i did I use a lot ...
I have several small diffusers and I try to have a last layer very close to the subject .. and then I add the "onion" canopy to erase all the hotspots ...

Yawns,

Wow, you've taken the light diffusion to the extremes

Very nice work, and really like your "onion layer" effects setup!!

Agree about trying to get the last diffusion layer close to the subject is important, this is the light source the subject "sees". I've had some success with a small white styrofoam cup with expanded end away from the lens covering the subject. This is inside a small light tent with the lens/cup poking thru a slit into where the subject resides inside the tent. Multiple strobes are used to illuminate the tent. I've also surrounded the tent lower sides with large white foam sheets acting as reflectors to try and "keep the light in the tent" where some benefit from reflections helps.

Your solution is much more elegant and overall smaller.

Great work and thanks for posting

Best,

Mike

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:33 am

Yawns, those are little works of art. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and I will imitate those for sure.

mawyatt · Post by **mawyatt** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:10 am

Yawns,

Like Lou, I may want to copy your ideas, with your permission of course

Best,

Mike

Deanimator · Post by **Deanimator** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:30 am

Yawns:

Very nice rig and results.

Yawns · Post by **Yawns** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:48 pm

ray_parkhurst wrote:Here's a lighting setup I use occasionally.

It produces very diffuse and even illumination, but with foil as a reflector it still retains some luster from specular reflections. I have also used a similar system with white reflectors and they eliminate the specular qualities.

Thank you fr sharing..
I started with something very similar .. only 2 white panels aside iof the lens .. but i did not like the black vertical band i was getting in the eyes .. (it's visible in the dragonfly with green background)

later i bent the panels on top to get light in the top parts of the subject...

Yawns · Post by **Yawns** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:53 pm

mawyatt wrote:Yawns,

Like Lou, I may want to copy your ideas, with your permission of course

Best,

Mike

of course.. make me happy if you both or anybody else do...
I published a picture with the rough measures I'm using to give people a starting point ...

All I "know" I got it mainly from this forum and some sites / blogs of individuals who cared to share...(and had the hardwork to write ( ilustrate it) .. I own a lot to a lot of peole, myself...

Tank you...

Yawns · Post by **Yawns** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:57 pm

Deanimator wrote:Yawns:

Very nice rig and results.

Thank you

___________________

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