Canon 70d or 700d (t5i)

myotis · Post by **myotis** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:57 am

Does anyone have any views they could share about choosing one or other of these cameras for use in photomacrography and photomacrography.

I am setting up a new undergraduate biology module on digital imaging, and have decided to go with buying Canon, primarily because of the EFSC capability, which looks worth having.

However, I have also read here about the 60d EFSC problems, and wondered what the situation is with the 70d. And, although the final choice will depend on a range of reasons, I would also interested if people here believe the extra cost of the 70d would be worth the money.

Many thanks,

Graham

myotis · Post by **myotis** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:02 am

Well, I guess no one can help me with this. It would have been nice to have had some expert views from before putting the money down on 10 bodies.

I assume these bodies are too new for anyone to know, I might ask Canon, but wonder if they ever acknowledged the problem of the 60d, or are even aware of how important this feature is for this type of photography.

Any way, thanks to everyone who read the post, even if they couldn't help.

Cheers,

Graham

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:19 am

Graham,

I can offer a belated "welcome aboard!".

About the 70D, however, I cannot say very much.

I used Google to search photomacrography.net:
https://www.google.com/#q=site:photomac ... +canon+70d

But as far as I could see, nothing in the results would answer the questions you have asked.

I do have one professional photographer friend who has sent me a number of very nice images shot with the 70D. These include a high magnification shot done with the MP-E 65 plus a 2X tele-extender. No mention of any difficulty, but I do not know for sure that it was shot with EFSC.

Ah, this may be helpful: http://www.robertotoole.com/2014/01/28/ ... r-curtain/

Found with Google search of "EFSC Canon 70D". Robert O'Toole is a regular poster here at photomacrography.net and I would consider him a highly reliable source.

--Rik

myotis · Post by **myotis** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:33 am

Hello Rik,

Thanks for this, I did search the forum, and googled, but didn't come across this link.

It certainly seems that the 60d issue reported here don't apply to the 70d.

So, I think we will go with the 70d.

Cheers,

Graham

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:32 am

Graham,

I wasn't aware of any test of 70D's EFSC.

The linked test seems conclusive at 2X, but in any case my advice is to buy it with "no asking" return privilege and to test it.

To perform the test, use the magnification that you plan (or higher) and in a environmental vibration free and stable place with continuous illumination take the same pictures at 1 or 2s and at 1/30s or 1/60s. If there is not sharpness difference the camera is vibration free. (this was my method with 60D and 7D, of course inspired in Charles document)

myotis · Post by **myotis** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:51 am

Thanks Pau,

I certainly will try some tests as you suggest.

Cheers,

Graham

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:29 pm

Graham,

Don't know the answer. I've been meaning to rent/borrow a 70D, 700D and 6D to test in this regard, but my last 5 months have been so chaotic I have scarcely touched my microscope!

I might ask Canon, but wonder if they ever acknowledged the problem of the 60d, or are even aware of how important this feature is for this type of photography.

Chuck Westfall, a highly positioned USA Canon rep certainly is aware of the value of this feature in regards to "vibration" during high magnification photography. I've discussed it with him. But this was back in 2009 before the 60D came out... so it would seem like the folks that actually design the cameras in Japan do not necessarily have "zero vibration" on their priority list (and as such I would seriously doubt they would consider it a "problem"

). The 60D has EFSC but there is obviously some internal part that moves at exposure initiation that creates some problems. As a result, even though the 70D does incorporate an EFSC, it would seem wise that all newer models need to be tested to see if they will be as vibration free as some previous models.

(As a side note... the older 50D is the only Canon body I've tried with EFSC that is completely silent at exposure start... not a sound at all! All of the other Canon models with EFSC that I have tried produce a faint internal sound at the start of an exposure, even though peering into the camera body there is nothing that can be seen to move. I have not personally tested the 70D or 6D, but on the other models with EFSC (despite this small sound) I have found is no discernible vibration that would cause me concern when using them for microscopy. (Except the 60D).

I would also interested if people here believe the extra cost of the 70d would be worth the money.

This is a tough call. The "xxD" series cameras use separate motors to power the mirror and shutter. The lower priced "xxxD" (Digital rebels) use a single motor to power both. As a result the xxD cameras provide and overall quieter and more pleasant operation since the mirror mechanism never needs to recycle (when using live-view with a continuous light source). The xxxD series Canon bodies require the mirror to recycle along with the shutter after each exposure so they are a bit noisier, and there is a higher level of vibration occurring after the exposure is made. (I emphasize "after" because in the picture there is no difference in vibration effects unless you take a quick sequence of images and allow no settle time at all between shots). But many of the features that you will be paying for with xxD body... better auto-focus, better viewfinder, "beefier" build quality and such are really of no advantage on a camera that is mounted on a microscope. (If you ever decide to incorporate electronic flash as a light source there are some xxD features that can make it a better choice for that usage... but a lot would depend on the xxxD model you might consider and the way everything is set up). Models that have the articulated rear LCD screen are quite nice to use when microscope mounted. My suspicion is that it could also prove to be quite a nice feature to have the 70D touch screen for changing settings. (Although with the other cameras you quickly learn to reach up and find the needed control buttons/dials by "feel").

pierre · Post by **pierre** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:49 pm

Hello Graham,

The EFSC works well even if there is a slight "Wizz" noise when it starts the shotting process.

Fortunaletly this does not affect the picture quality: I was able to test it under continuous light at 50x whitout trouble. The quality was much better than with the 40D.

From my opinion, the noise is the same as produced by the EOS 1000D and it seems identical with most of the Canon camera I have heard of with exception, of the 40D, 50D and 5DmkII (to be corrected?). Those last does not make any noise at all when the shot starts.

My old 40D , with it's 230 000 shutters actuations can take a good rest now

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:06 pm

Charles, I've tested the 6D and EFSC works fine:

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... p?p=134301

myotis · Post by **myotis** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:11 pm

Thank you Pierre and Charles,

I think I have decided to go with the 70d , as the cameras will also be used for video and other general photography, where the 70d has some more obvious advantages.

I did wonder whether Canon were even aware of the importance of efsc in terms of vibration, and it sounds as if they might not be, which is unfortunate, as it's going to introduce uncertainty with every new model.

Thank goodness this forum is here.

Cheers,

Graham

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:41 pm

rjlittlefield wrote: .....
I do have one professional photographer friend who has sent me a number of very nice images shot with the 70D. These include a high magnification shot done with the MP-E 65 plus a 2X tele-extender. No mention of any difficulty, but I do not know for sure that it was shot with EFSC.

Ah, this may be helpful: http://www.robertotoole.com/2014/01/28/ ... r-curtain/
....

Hi Rik, Graham, everyone,

Yes I can confirm that the Canon 70D does have EFSC and its on by default when you enable live-view. I actually came across this thread on my way to post this info in another thread.

The 70D is my first camera body with EFSC and I am surprised at how well it works. EFSC results are very noticeable.

I do not understand why Nikon decided not to make feature available their bodies!

Robert

myotis · Post by **myotis** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:01 am

Thank Robert,

I assume this important to very few people, and from what I have read seems to be a spin off of from trying to make a silent shutter, rather than a designed feature.

Having said that, a vibration free shutter seems a fundamental expectation.

I used to routinely lock up the mirror with medium format for landscape pictures. This worked well with hasselblads( with a blade shutter), but one make of camera was unusable through a range of shutter speeds, due to vibration from the focal plane shutter. Strangely, it was OK handheld, but useless on a solid tripod.

I also wish Nikon had taken this on board, as I am a Nikon user, but will be buying 10 and eventually up to 30 canons, because of this feature. I would rather buy Nikon as that is what I am used to using.

Thanks again,

Graham

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:31 am

myotis wrote:Thank Robert,

I assume this important to very few people, and from what I have read seems to be a spin off of from trying to make a silent shutter, rather than a designed feature.

Having said that, a vibration free shutter seems a fundamental expectation.

I used to routinely lock up the mirror with medium format for landscape pictures. This worked well with hasselblads( with a blade shutter), but one make of camera was unusable through a range of shutter speeds, due to vibration from the focal plane shutter. Strangely, it was OK handheld, but useless on a solid tripod.

I also wish Nikon had taken this on board, as I am a Nikon user, but will be buying 10 and eventually up to 30 canons, because of this feature. I would rather buy Nikon as that is what I am used to using.

Graham

As a long time Nikon user and have only owned the Canon 70D and MP-E 65 since December. Nikon is still my main wildlife photography system with D4 and D800E bodies and lots of lenses. That said I am really enjoying my 70D.

Would be glad to help anytime if you need any advice or tips to make your Canon transition smoother and less painful. Just send me a message anytime.

Best regards,

Robert

myotis · Post by **myotis** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:52 am

RobertOToole wrote: Graham

As a long time Nikon user and have only owned the Canon 70D and MP-E 65 since December. Nikon is still my main wildlife photography system with D4 and D800E bodies and lots of lenses. That said I am really enjoying my 70D.

Would be glad to help anytime if you need any advice or tips to make your Canon transition smoother and less painful. Just send me a message anytime.

Best regards,

Robert

Thanks Robert, I may well take you up on that.

Cheers,

Graham

Stone · Post by **Stone** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:54 am

Hello Graham!

I do not know, did you buy the 70D? What kind of experience do you have with?
I compared with my old 50D and EFSC does not work so fine, unfortunately.
I do not suggest 70D for macro photography.

Regards: Stone