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Connecting Olympus BH-2 microscope and E-3 DSLR
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

Thanks to a private mesage and some testing, I figured out that the idea NFK 3.3x + camera objective won't work (see edit above).

Does anybody else have an idea that might help "allelopath"?

Are there any visual Olympus eyepieces that fit into the BH-2 phototube? Or can the phototube modified (non-destructively) to accomodate an eyepiece?

Ichthy
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4828
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May be there are 5X visual eyepieces for the BH that could fit (from other makers like Leitz or Zeiss are) Leitz eyepieces will work but the eyepiece compensation I think that is close but likely not identical.

A doable possibility is to buy a spare eyepiece adapter like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-Microscope-Photo-Tube-Adapter-25mm-Tube-To-Dovetail-Mount-/161421168828?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25957390bc
and cut off the dovetail mount or custom machine it without the dovetail
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Pau
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4828
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:
Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Does anybody here have an NFK 3.3x and could literally give it a shot?

I have one somewhere in a drawer or box, when I find it and have the time I'll test it with the OM 50 1.8, but with my Zeiss microscope and Leitz objectives, as I don't have more Oly stuff. I recall it not being parfocal when used as visual eyepiece.


Done:

Zeiss Satandard, Leitz NPL Fluotar 40/0.70. DIC, Olympus NFK 3.3 LD, Olympus 50mm f1.8 at f4, EOS 7D

It works with some caveats:
- Image quality is very good (better than in the downsampled image), there is some CA but I use Leitz optics, not Olympus, and it isn't big.
- With my trinocular head wich is parfocal when I use visual type eyepieces the NFK is not. To parfocalise it you need to pull out the viewing eyepieces about 10mm. I suspect that the Olympus BH trinocular has the phototube shorter than standard 160mm, I say it because the eyepiece field stop (the black circle) is not focused toghether with the image and because the lack of parfocality. I'm not sure, it would be nice if a BH2 owner could test this.
- The eyepiece vignettes with APS, even with a 63mm relay lens. Maybe with 4/3 it could work OK or just with some corner vignette, but it is just a consequence of the low magnification:
I've not measured the actual magnification, but comparing with my Leitz eyepieces I can say that it is about 4.5-5X, enough close to Itcthy calculations, the total realy magnification is cleary smaller than with my Periplan 6.3X

I think that this is not its best use but fully doable if you use the camera live image to focus.
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: HR070-CMT Reply with quote

Long story short, I now have one of these (attached). It fits nicely into the trinocular head and if the print on the thing ("CMT") is to be believed, the top part is a C mount.

On the upper part it says:
diagnostic
instruments
0.7X
HR070-CMT

On the lower part:
V
CLAMP

With this, what would I need to connect it to the Olympus E-3 body?
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The problem, and maybe the reason by no-one has replied to your post, is that the flange focal distance of the Olympus E-3 is much longer than that of C-mount cameras.

The Olympus E-3 is this 4/3 camera? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_E-3

Then the flange focal distance is 38.67 mm, while C-mount should be 17.52 mm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance

Therefore the adapter HR070-CMT cannot produce an image on the chip without re-focusing of the microscope.

I haven't seen any 4/3-to-C-mount adapters in a quick search (there are plenty of M4/3 to C-mount adapters but the flange focal distance of M4/3 is much shorter). But even if you found an adapter, the image circle will be very small.

----------------

Do you have a friend you could lend you a Nikon-1 camera? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_CX_format The flange focal distance of the Nikon-1 is so short (17 mm) that adapters can be bought on Ebay for around $5. The chip of the Nikon-1 is quite small (1" format), closer to the 2/3" that the 0.7x HR070-CMT was probably designed for. http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/c-mount-video-bh2-microscope.html

There will be vignetting but at least you could check the image quality of the 0.7x HR070-CMT adapter.

It's just an idea. Don't buy the camera in case it doesn't work. But if somebody you know has a Nikon1, it might be worth a try.

Ichthy
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. Just to be clear, I have both the BH-2 microscope and the E-3 camera..

>>Therefore the adapter HR070-CMT cannot produce an image on the chip without re-focusing of the microscope.
I'm not sure what this means. Can you explain more? By refocusing do you mean turning the focus knob?

I do not have access to a Nikon-1
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allelopath wrote:
I'm not sure what this means. Can you explain more? By refocusing do you mean turning the focus knob?


Hi,

When your microscope is set up correctly, the C-mount adapter should produce a sharp image 17.52 mm above the flange, which is where you should place the chip of your camera.

However, because your camera has a longer flange focal distance of 38.67 mm, when you attach your E-3 to the adapter, there will be no sharp image. The chip is about 20 mm too far away from the image produced by the adapter.

You also cannot move the E-3 closer to the adapter, because the mirror of your camera is in the way.

So what you will have to do, is to use the fine focus of your microscope until you produce a sharp image on your camera chip ("re-foccusing"). If it is even possible. People don't normally do that, because it means your camera and your eyepieces are not parfocal any more. Also, the change in the working distance of the microscope objective means that you introduce image aberrations.

How bad all these effects are for a 20 mm difference, I don't know. The photographers in the forum might know, I haven't tried it personally.

Kind regards, Ichthy
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for all the info. Very helpful. So I guess I give up on the E-3

Looking at the olympus microscope cameras at their site:
http://www.olympusamerica.com/seg_section/seg_accessories.asp?section=cameras

When I try to find prices for these, I find nothing. My guess would be because they are expensive, thousands, maybe tens of thousands of $.
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Yeah, they are expensive. A good quality 2/3" CCD digital camera will cost a few $100.

I don't see an easy way forward with this ... Maybe tell us what your priorities are.

Do you want to take images for aesthetic (high quality) or for documentation (lower quality might be OK)?

Do you want to control your camera from a PC, or is it OK to control on the camera body, maybe aided by an external monitor?

Are you prepared to get some custom built adapters for your microscope?

How much would you be prepared to pay; for the adapters+optics; for another camera?

Kind regards, Ichthy
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is for 'artistic' purposes, so I guess that means high res.
Control from the camera is fine (assuming control from computer is more expensive)

Can you point me to a good quality 2/3" CCD digital camera will cost a few $100 ?
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allelopath wrote:
Can you point me to a good quality 2/3" CCD digital camera will cost a few $100 ?


Unfortunately not. I haven't tested any. I'm using a consumer camera (Canon 500D) because tests were available and it was much cheaper than a corresponding dedicated microscope camera.

allelopath wrote:
This is for 'artistic' purposes, so I guess that means high res. Control from the camera is fine (assuming control from computer is more expensive)


High camera resolution is rarely important in microscopy http://www.microscopyu.com/tutorials/flash/pixelcalc/

The image quality is more important, but you can find reviews and tests for most models of the big manufacturers online.

Control from a computer is not necessarily more expensive, but only a few companies offer that function and allow you to shoot straight from a Live preview, namely Canon (many EOS models; with Canon's own free software, "Canon Utilities"), Nikon (many DSLRs; Software bought separately) and Olympus (few models; with this reverse-engineered software: https://rebs.biz/cc/en/index.html )

The DSLRs have a chip that is too big for your HR070-CMT adapter.

In order to use them on the BH2, you would either have to find the expensive NFK1.67x projective http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/digital-slr-bh2-microscope.html or if you want to use the cheaper NFK 2.5x, you need an expensive full frame camera.

here are a few options that I can see (again, I haven't tested any, so you'll have to work out the details yourself):

1) Afocal options

A) Force an Olympus visual eyepiece into your phototube

As we found earlier, the normal Olympus eyepieces don't fit into the top of the Olympus phototube, because it is very narrow (have you actually tried it yourself??).

I found this image, which shows that you can force an Olympus CWHK 10x/18L eyepiece into the phototube if you unscrew the outer casing and then grind down the thread until it fits in. http://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index.php?topic=987.0

It's not clear from the text if the eyepiece in the phototube is parfocal with the other eyepieces in the observation tube.

You then attach your camera through the filter thread of your camera prime objective and a clamp ring (F-adapter www.ebay.com/itm/261199415724 )


B) Replace the phototube

Look at this image http://www.labexchange.com/en/buy-devices/d/?sn=22137 Somebody seems to have replaced the top of the original phototube with a custom-made tube that takes visual eyepieces.

Once you fit a visual eyepiece in a narrow eyepiece tube (outer diameter about 23mm), you can easily fit a camera using the afocal method with a suitable prime camera lens http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep13/dw-afocal.html



2) C-mount cameras

A) Get a 2/3" camera for your HR070-CMT adapter

Looks like an expensive option.


B) Try out a Nikon 1 camera

Connect a Nikon 1 using a c-mount adapter ring www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281238303572 and your HR070-CMT adapter.

Looks like you can't control the Nikon 1 from a computer, http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19256&view=previous&sid=b6ea56d9089e6c74342edd0cde480577 , but you can connect it to a screen (external monitor or computer) through the HDMI out and live preview your images http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3585884 and at least trigger it with a remote control.

In many countries you can buy a camera like this from an evil corporation like amazon, test it, and return it within 2 weeks. Then go and buy it from your local camera shop (not the other way round! Very Happy )

If you like the functionality of the Nikon 1, in the future you can buy an NFK 2.5x projective and an Olympus MTV-3 or U-PMTVC on Ebay (might require some patience) as described here http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/c-mount-video-bh2-microscope.html The Nikon 1 has a 1" sensor, so it should fit well.

Regards, Ichthy
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for all the information.

I'm leaning towards the Nikon 1 option.

Any of these would do?
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Nikon-1-Cameras/index.page
If so, would any particular one be better than the others?
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I don't know anything about them other than what was written in the links above. Even the most simple model (J1) has an HDMI out port and might do (around $200 on Ebay); 10MP are more than enough. You'll have to read up on the different models on any of the camera review sites.

Obviously, when to get one to test it, have the C-mount to Nikon 1 adapter ring ready beforehand Very Happy

Please let us know if it worked for you, that would be interesting to know.

Ichthy
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link you provided on ebay was for the UK. I am in the US. I see this:
http://www.amazon.com/EzFoto-C-Mount-Movie-Camera-Adapter/dp/B006WT3OME

So I've ordered it. Both ebay and amazon say "Nikon 1 N1 V1 J1"
There are various Nikon 1 models. I suppose this adapter works for all of them.

In the interim, I will research the various Nikon 1 models.
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That adapter ring should work.
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