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New Nikon D810 body to have EFSC

 
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Chris S.
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Joined: 05 Apr 2009
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Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:57 pm    Post subject: New Nikon D810 body to have EFSC Reply with quote

The newly-announced Nikon D810 DSLR body is slated to have an electronic first shutter curtain (EFSC) feature. Depending on how well it's implemented, this may be notable for some of us.

In the Nikon world, the model number "D810" indicates that Nikon considers this a modest update to the existing D800 and D800e bodies. A major update would be designated "D900," or some other number substantially separated from 800. But bundled into the D810 are a set of advances that, while likely minor to many photographers, could be significant to others.

We know from the experiences of Canon users that some implementations of EFSC eliminate shutter-induced vibration very well, while others do a poorer job. All we have at present is Nikon's announcement, so until we see tests done with actual D810 bodies, we should probably be careful in predicting how effective its EFSC will be for us photomacrographers. But we have hope! I suspect I'm not alone in wondering why Nikon has so-far omitted this useful feature.

I have not found Nikon's to-date lack of EFSC to be a deal-breaker, as there are workarounds that don't bother me much. That said, if Nikon offers really effective EFSC, I won't turn it down. And while the D810 is a higher-end professional/prosumer camera than many folks will want to purchase, Nikon often introduces new features at this level, and then extends them into less expensive bodies.

Details of the announcement at dpreview.

--Chris
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NikonUser



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
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Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The D810 seems to have some features that don't appeal to me.
As a fan of Adobe's Camera Raw (ACR) and Photoshop CS6 the release of ACR 8.5 by Adobe on June 18 2014 came with the following "...a final release for Photoshop CS6..." . This "final release" does not include the D810.

Also, the D810 has "a 9MP S-Raw mode for reduced resolution RAW capture". I'm uncertain as to whether this is the only RAW mode available, how it will be processed, and why I would want "reduced resolution".
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Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
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Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the specs I've read, this may be the camera I've been waiting for. Rik tried to convince me to buy the D800E when it came out, but EFSC is important to me as I don't do flash with my coin photography. I also was not that happy that they did not completely remove the AA filter, instead just adding another one to cancel its effects. It sounds like the D810 has implemented both of these features that kept me from buying the D800E! I may finally end up with a camera that can take full advantage of my strong preference for 1:1 duplication lenses for coin photgraphy. But I still need to convince my wife to let me spend the $$, and indeed I might end up waiting for first review to make sure the EFSC actually works. Not being rich, I am generally not an early adopter, though this camera has me thinking about it...Ray
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Steve S



Joined: 10 May 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several comments:

To NikonUser: Iliah Borg, author of Rawdigger, has made a fairly convincing case that the Nikon S-Raw format is not at all well conceived, and that one would be far better off using compressed 12-bit conventional raw. For the details see the Rawdigger web site. Of course the D810 has the conventional raw formats.

As to the self-defeated AA-filter of the D800e, I always suspected it had some slight blurring function and have seen much speculation to that effect. OTOH, Jim Kasson, a very very accomplished and energetic guy (up there in the league with Rik), just posted his conclusion from months of using the Sony A7r (definitely fully AA-less) and D800e side-by-side on the same subjects that he sees no difference whatever in resolution. See:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3690846#forum-post-53924296

As to the EFCS implementation, we won't have to wait very long to know something: B&H is citing July 17 for first availability. Since NIkon seems to have gotten into this EFCS expressly to reduce vibration (they also refer to changes in mirror dynamics), one would think that there would be some substantial reduction to shutter shock.
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Yousef Alhabshi



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: New Nikon D810 body to have EFSC Reply with quote

Although I'm so excited hearing that finally it has the EFCS.. I won't have my hopes high until I see how does it operate in a real world!
I wish if I can get one in my hands soon to do some tests & to see if it is worth to upgrade from my current D800E!
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NikonUser



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that Nikon is promoting a "Switch & Save" promotion for its upcoming D810.
http://nikonrumors.com/2014/07/01/new-nikon-d810-switch-save-promo-coming-on-july-17th-with-up-to-1000-in-savings.aspx/#more-77952
presumably to entice users of other brands to switch to Nikon (Rik?).
I would love to switch, but to Canon.
_________________
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student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
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Inseewincesee



Joined: 04 Jun 2014
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Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NikonUser wrote:
The D810 seems to have some features that don't appeal to me.
As a fan of Adobe's Camera Raw (ACR) and Photoshop CS6 the release of ACR 8.5 by Adobe on June 18 2014 came with the following "...a final release for Photoshop CS6..." . This "final release" does not include the D810.

Also, the D810 has "a 9MP S-Raw mode for reduced resolution RAW capture". I'm uncertain as to whether this is the only RAW mode available, how it will be processed, and why I would want "reduced resolution".


I think if you go back in the previous ACR release details you will find that after CC release, all further ACR have been touted as the "Final Release' .... basically it's not true.

They announce a ACR Release Candidate that is available for download, this is like a BETA testing round for users to report problems.

Once that settles down and is sorted, a 'Final Release' Candidate is put up for download.
I suspect this is what you are referring to.

You can always download the update from the Adobe site and install it manually if you haven't deleted Adobe installer[ which a lot of people tend to do, for reasons that seem paranoid to me]

Adobe needs to keep the flow between current and future Lightroom users, and older CS Photoshop purchasers.
The only way that can happen is if both programs [and ADOBE Bridge] are on the same ACR update model.
You will find you will get error messages if there is a mismatch between the programs, and you won't be able to transfer content from one program to another.
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Chris S.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the first real-world D810 report of which I’m aware, a hands-on field-test. I’m hesitant to recommend it for this community, because what the reviewer does with EFSC is very different from what a photomacrographer would be doing—a hand-held one-second shot with a lens that has built-in vibration reduction. No comparison is offered against shooting without EFSC in this situation. And the shot doesn’t actually look very sharp even at Web video resolution—though not bad for hand-held at one second.

If interested, this demonstration begins at 6:22, and continues for less than half a minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mBZDDiBPlM

Steve S wrote:
. . . Jim Kasson, a very very accomplished and energetic guy (up there in the league with Rik), just posted his conclusion from months of using the Sony A7r (definitely fully AA-less) and D800e side-by-side on the same subjects that he sees no difference whatever in resolution. See: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3690846#forum-post-53924296

Steve, to your knowledge, has Jim Kasson presented example images to illustrate his conclusion? Something we have learned from discussing test images is that different sets of eyes can sometimes perceive test images very differently.

Nullius in verba. Wink

--Chris
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Steve S



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Chris, I don't think Kasson has posted anything systematic on this subject. If you look at his blog over the past year or so, however, I think you will agree he is not your average photo forum punter. His opinion carries some weight with me, at least, perhaps especially in that it runs contrary to my supposition. His is the most extensive and even-handed investigation I know of the huge Sony A7r shutter-shock flap.

Shortly the D810 will be out and we'll know. We're not going to learn it from those guys in Calgary, for sure.
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conkar



Joined: 18 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris S. wrote:

Steve S wrote:
. . . Jim Kasson, a very very accomplished and energetic guy (up there in the league with Rik), just posted his conclusion from months of using the Sony A7r (definitely fully AA-less) and D800e side-by-side on the same subjects that he sees no difference whatever in resolution. See: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3690846#forum-post-53924296

Steve, to your knowledge, has Jim Kasson presented example images to illustrate his conclusion? Something we have learned from discussing test images is that different sets of eyes can sometimes perceive test images very differently.

Nullius in verba. Wink

--Chris


That might not be so strange...... As Nikon buy some of their sensors from a company named Sony.... the sensor IMX094AQP for an example.

Regards,

Conny
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Chris S.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

I’m not questioning your favorable opinion of Jim Kasson's work--I am not familiar with it at all. Let me repeat what I intended to be the important part of what I wrote above: "Different sets of eyes can sometimes perceive test images very differently." Therein lies the rub—it's best to study comparison images with our own eyes, no matter how expert the original researcher, because visual perception is highly individual. Some people will detect differences that others will not.

As an example: Last March, Rik presented a superbly-conducted, highly sensitive test of stacking increments. Reading Rik's post, I was impressed with his test methods and presentation approach, but surprised at his perception of the resulting images: "I think the results are pretty clear," Rik wrote. "From 1/16 to 1 micron, the images are indistinguishable.” My eyes saw things quite differently: From 1/8 to 1 micron, Rik's test images are instantly and obviously distinguishable to me.

So while I have nothing but admiration for Rik’s test, I do draw a different conclusion from his data. Visual perception is an important part of interpreting data from this test, or any similar one. And this sort of visual perception seems highly variable from one person to another.

(BTW, I was traveling when Rik posted his thread, so by the time I was able to respond, it had passed from active discussion. I did share my thoughts with Rik via email, which initiated a vigorous and productive round of correspondence that, I think, advanced the thinking of us both. Perhaps Rik and I should summarize that offline conversation and add it to his thread. But way leads on to way, and if it's ever done, it will surely be ages and ages hence.)

Cheers,

--Chris
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