Venn diagram view through binoculars and stage help

Ericthefishman · Post by **Ericthefishman** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:02 pm

Hello,
I recently purchased an old Nikon Diaphot and It arrived with no power supply and the binoculars sheared off. With a great deal of help from Cactusdave and Rogelio (thanks guys) I was able to replace the binos and purchase a power supply that works.
Now that I have power and binos I was able to get a look through the scope for the first time today. I found that I can not get the image through the binos to look correct. It looks OK through each one individually but the 2 images wont fully overlap when looking through both. There is a push pull type lever on the side of the scope that I believe is supposed to correct this, but It wont move. I applied as much force as I feel safe with to it and it didn't budge. Is this even relevant? If yes any Idea how to fix/address this?

The stage is a bit unusual. It is all aluminum and clearly was made for this scope but I can't find any info about it. I have 2 questions about It.
1: It has a screwed down stage plate that was designed to hold a small petri dish? Any suggestions on how to view slides, larger petri dishes with this setup?
2: It has some missing screws/parts. Any idea what might have been there? Or what I was used for?

There is a open close lever on the front of the lamp area. It doesn't like to move but with some jiggling it can about 20-30% I doesnt seem to move anything else. Any ideas?

Last how high should I keep the condenser above the sample I'm viewing?

I apreciate all of your help/expertise, and I can't wait to start taking pictures with this beast.

Here are some pics
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ebreptiles/
and the manual
http://www.boycesci.com/Manuals/Diaphot-TMD.pdf

Thanks
Eric B.

Cactusdave · Post by **Cactusdave** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:21 am

The extent of overlap of the two images from the different 'arms' of the binocular head is controlled by physically pulling them closer together or further apart. They should pivot at their base. The process is virtually the same as setting the inter-pupillary distance on a pair of binoculars. If you can't get the image circles to overlap nicely however you try, there may be an issue with misalignment of prisms in the head itself. The lever you mention is nothing to do this, but is designed to bring a photo graticule that shows field widths with various film formats, in or out of the light path. These rods can get stuck with lack of use. As long as it's not stuck half way in, in which case it would partially block the light path, it's not a big issue.

The way to set up the ideal condenser height on the Diaphot is very simple. Turn the light on and get it reasonably bright. Swing a medium power objective into the light path, say a X10. Close the lamp ('field') diaphragm down until you can see it is darkening the edge of the field of view through the eyepieces. Move the condenser up and down until you can see the edges of the lamp diaphragm sharply. You may need to close it down a bit more at this stage. If the bright 'hole' with dark edges isn't central in the field of view, centre it with the two condenser centring screws on either side of the condenser mount. The aim should be to get a sharply edged circle of light in the centre of the field of view. At this point open the diaphragm till its edges just disappear from the field of view. Now the condenser is at it's optimum height and setting. It's best to have the condenser diaphragm wide open during this process. You can close it down a bit to improve contrast of the subject on the slide as needed once the rest of the setting up process has been done.You need to repeat this process everytime you rotate in a new objective, but it's very quick once you get into the habit.

On your microscope, the normal stage has been replaced by some kind of purpose made rig as you describe to hold a small culture dish, probably for microinjection. It should be possible to get hold of an original stage to replace what you have via Ebay or a service engineer and this would be best for what you want to do. In the meantime can you not just lay a slide (upside down of course, this is an inverted 'scope

) over the opening for the culture dish and move it around with two vernier stage screws meant to move the culture dish? Not ideal but workable till you get something better. Nikon made a slide holder for the original Diaphot stage, and all this does is sit the slide neatly over the hole in the stage.

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:06 am

Cactusdave wrote: ...In the meantime can you not just lay a slide (upside down of course, this is an inverted 'scope ) over the opening for the culture dish ...

True if you use objectives designed for upright microscopes, but because objectives for inverted ones are designed to look through a thicker glass, the slide would be better placed in normal position.

Cactusdave · Post by **Cactusdave** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:18 am

That's a good point Pau. However I routinely use non-long working distance objectives on the Diaphot. I'm not sure whether even LWD and ELWD objectives would work any worse because they didn't have the thickness of a glass slide rather than just a coverslip between them and the subject.

Ericthefishman · Post by **Ericthefishman** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:11 am

Thanks guys,
This morning I tried to play with it a little more and I still had the same problem. It could just be user error as I'm completely new at this. I have the lens adjuster just under the head set to O (open), the condenser set to ph10, and I'm using a 10 X objective. Regardless of how I move the binos or turn the focus on the eyepieces I cant get the images to overlap. I noticed this last time that one eye was yellow, and the other green? I'm able to focus each one when used as a monocular with ok results. I'm not sure what It should look like though as I have no basis for comparison. Could it be that the Labphot head I used is not the same as the diaphot head that didn't make it in transit. I have a tech coming out next week to maintenance it but he specializes in zeiss and olympus scopes. I just want to be sure that I have what I need to make this work when he arrives. Also want to be sure that i can make it work at all before I pay him to travel to my house, clean and align it.
Any Ideas?

Cactusdave · Post by **Cactusdave** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:52 am

Not sure exactly what's going on here. I have my binocular head set to an angle of about 63 degrees on the angle indicator in the pivot of the head and that gives me good overlap. Altering the individual eyepiece focus rings won't affect the overlap. I don't understand why you are seeing the difference in colour of the light between the two eyepieces. Does this still occur when you look through one eyepiece at a time? Sometimes it's just hard to be really helpful at a distance, when you know exactly what you would look at with the microscope in front of you. Sorry

It may be that there is an issue with the optics somewhere, in the microscope or head prisms, but the reality is you may need a professional visit to diagnose this and assess what if any parts are needed to fix it.

Ericthefishman · Post by **Ericthefishman** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:51 pm

So I've been playing around with the scope and It only continues to get more and more out of my depth. I've been able to see a correct image by deliberately un focusing my eyes but I can't imagine that it's good for my vision

. Also by holding an eyepiece up to the 2 camera ports I get a good image. I contacted 2 companies about preventative maintenance/ service and got very different replies. The first company http://lukasmicroscope.com/index.html said it would be $350 USD for the PM and up from there if repairs are needed. The second company I contacted http://www.micro-serv.us/ said they would do the same for $86 USD. but admittedly he seemed less sure about the repairs. He started talking about how the binos could be bad and need expensive service that he doesn't offer. I asked if I could just replace them instead and he said yes. This caused me to be a bit less sure of his experience. I asked and he said he's been doing this for 30 years. Any idea what the more typical cost is for in home PM? Both companies are less than 5 miles from me so travel time is not a large factor. I'm trying to justify using the less expensive company for service. I'm fairly poor and $350 seems a bit high. I'm curious for your opinion.
Thanks
Eric

Cactusdave · Post by **Cactusdave** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:11 am

Can't comment on the cost in the US, but my engineer charged the equivalent of about $160 for the service call out, which included about 2 hours spent on cleaning and adjusting, and he had a good way to travel. Parts of course were on top of that. A good replacement binocular head, second hand X10 CFW eyepieces, head mounting ring and a second hand X20 phase objective cost in total around $450, but these were dealers prices of course, and this was some years ago. When he had finished the guy offered me $1600 for the microscope as it stood and that was $600-700 more than my total outlay, so it was a good investment not to speak of the hours of pleasure I have had from it. What you need is a guy who will come in, do a clean, align and set up and tell you honestly if there are any serious issues that need addressing with replacement parts.

On your other points, you may find if you have high working point eyepieces that you get the best and most comfortable view with your eyes further from the eyepieces than you would instinctively expect. I'm not sure what you mean when you say you get a good image by holding an eyepiece up to the camera ports. The front port with no camera in place is just a large hole and I'm not sure where I'd hold an eyepiece, the side port would require you to be a serious gymnast to get to it with an eyepiece

Anyway if you do get a good image from either of the ports, it's an encouraging sign that may indicate that there's nothing wrong with the really expensive fundamentals of the microscope.

RogelioMoreno · Post by **RogelioMoreno** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:15 am

Eric,

Or the binocular part is no good or you have not adjusted it to your interpupillar distance. To test the scope:

1. Try to set the condenser to the normal open position, let us know what positions it has.

2. You can use a prepared slide upside-down. Some objectives has a correction ring and others are made to work with 0.17mm or 1.2mm, if the objective that you are going to use is marked 0.17 then you can use a prepared slide upside-down, if the objectives is marked 1.2 then you have to use a slide with 1.2mm thick and put the specimen on it, if the objective has a correction ring then you can use a prepared slide upside-down when you set the correction ring to 0.17 (to get better result you will have to move the correction ring more or less from the 0.17 position, that will depend of the thick of the coverslip; but all of this is too advance right now).

3. Focus a prepared slide, do the final fine focus with one eye only (right for example), then with that eye closed focus the other eye using the diopter adjuster of the eyepiece (do not use the focus fine of the microscope), after that try closing or opening the binocular head until you see only a big circle (if you see a Venn diag. then you are not ok). Some beginner has problem with the binocular view; but with the time you get used to it. Your angle of view (the height of the chair) is very important to get a confortable view.

Rogelio

Ericthefishman · Post by **Ericthefishman** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:35 am

Cactusdave,
Thank you very much for the price comparison. I think I'm going to have the less expensive guy come out. He has already demonstrated that he will recommend what he thinks is correct even if he doesn't offer the service, and I would imagine with thirty years experience cleaning and aligning will be no problem. I have less than $700 in the scope and zeiss power supply as it sits. After watching many auctions I believe I'll have no problem getting back to 0 if it turns out to be wrecked. I was able to pick up a new bino with cfwn eyepieces but it hasn't arrived yet. Hopefully this will allow me to use the process of elimination to learn if its the scope, the binos, the eyepieces, or ME

that needs to be repaired. The cfw eye pieces on the scope look to have had the eye cups cut off. I'm guessing they didn't want to keep pushing them back to facilitate using glasses? Do you have the cfw or cfwn eyepieces? Is one better than the other?Lastly yes... I am a serious gymnast

Rogelio,
The Hoffman Modulation condenser has only 4 positions PC 10, PC20, HMC20, and HMC40. There is no open position. The objectives are the same PH1 plan 10 .30 DL 160/0.17 is the only one that is fixed at .17mm. The other 3 PH2 20 DL 0.4 160/0-2, HMC 20 LWD 0.4A 160/0-2, and HMS 40 LWD 0.5 NA 160/0-2 seem to be adjustable an have a range of .17mm to 2mm. They don't seem to turn easily. Is it normal to have to force them? Or should I just wait till the service man gets a look at it? It also has an observation turret with an open, closed, magnification, and bertrand lens setting. I'll try changing around the angle I've been trying to view it from and see what happens. Also the eyepieces being cut could be impacting my view as I'm not used to floating off of them to see correctly.

Let me know if you have any additional thoughts or questions. You have already been a huge help.
Eric

RogelioMoreno · Post by **RogelioMoreno** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Eric,

It is better to wait the service man to check the objectives´s correction ring.

The observation turret that you are talking about has a bertrand lens position that will allow you to easily align the condenser´s phase rings (10 and 20) and HMC postions.

Rogelio