Ringflash on reversed lens

[CRAK]

Hi all,
I love what's you're all doing here, getting extreme magnifications by reversing and stacking lenses. You've got me enthusiastic and I'm now planning my own first few steps in that direction.
After absorbing a lot of info, one thing is still puzzling me: no one seems to be using a ring flash on their reversed lens.
Is there a reason for that? Or is the unavailability of a "reverse-reverse" ring (M42 (F) to e.g. 52mm (F)) the main cause?

[canonian]

Hey, another Dutchy, welcome ! No reason for not using a ringflash. I do not know if your ringflash has some sort of thread to mount it on a lens and what kind, but in most cases it is possible to convert one types of thread into another.
Ebay is the best source to search for this conversions. A lot of Chinese sellers can service you, I've had good experience with availability and price.
Maybe you need to convert these threads in more than one step. (M to F, M42 to 52mm) Good luck!

[CRAK]

Thanks for your response.
My problem is that I can't find a way to end up having a female thread that can mount the ringflash (with or without stepping rings). The reversed lens is male and so is the rinflash' mount.
A M42x1(F) to 52mmx0.75(M) isn't very common, but not hard to find, and with stepping rings virtually anything is possible.
Basically all I would need at that point is a (double) female 52mmx0.75mm threaded ring (or a nut).
I don't expect you to do my homework, but if you've found one, could you drop the community a link?[/img]

[rjlittlefield]

CRAK, welcome aboard!

no one seems to be using a ring flash on their reversed lens.
Is there a reason for that? Or is the unavailability of a "reverse-reverse" ring (M42 (F) to e.g. 52mm (F)) the main cause?

Mounting is certainly one issue.

Other issues are that:
1. Ring flashes produce distinctive donut-shaped highlights that some people find distracting.
2. With a ring flash it's relatively difficult to adjust the angles of illumination to get 3D modeling.
3. At high mag you often need additional diffusion anyway. Ring lights aren't actually "soft", they're just ring-shaped. In the radial direction, the light source is still pretty small, that is, the ring is narrow.

Considering all these aspects together, most people end up going with one or more traditional flashes used in combination with an added diffuser placed close to the subject. Simple diffusers such as foam cups, yogurt containers, and thin paper are popular, as is the famous ping pong ball. I used to use ping pong balls a lot, but lately I find myself mostly using the others because they're more adaptable.

--Rik

[ChrisR]

Basically all I would need at that point is a (double) female 52mmx0.75mm threaded ring (or a nut).
I don't expect you to do my homework, but if you've found one, could you drop the community a link?

They don't seem to make 'em.
One workaround I've used is a step-down ring. If you have something like a 72 - 52 you'll often find you have a thickish disc with a 52mm hole through the middle. You can then screw a 52mm male in from both sides.
If you really need such a thing it's a real pain, because you never know how a step-ring is made until it drops through the letterbox.

[larrynicks]

This outfit has female reverse rings:

http://www.camerafilters.com/pages/macrorings.aspx

I have bought from them several times over the past couple of years. They have good prices, they ship fast, and, if you order about five assorted rings at a time, they will ship free and give a discount.

Larry

[CRAK]

Other issues are that:
1. Ring flashes produce distinctive donut-shaped highlights that some people find distracting.
2. With a ring flash it's relatively difficult to adjust the angles of illumination to get 3D modeling.
3. At high mag you often need additional diffusion anyway. Ring lights aren't actually "soft", they're just ring-shaped. In the radial direction, the light source is still pretty small, that is, the ring is narrow.

I'm aware of that. For now I'm mostly interested in achieving higher magnifications out in the field. A ringflash' side effects may be bypassed by using black tape (leaving e.g. 3 gaps open), non-clear scotch tape and white paper.
I agree that multiple flashes on addtitional brackets or fibre optic illumination in a studio environment should bring better results.

This outfit has female reverse rings:

http://www.camerafilters.com/pages/macrorings.aspx

That's exactly what I was looking for!

Thanks for your contributions everyone!

[oxkarthemighty]

Simple diffusers such as foam cups, yogurt containers, and thin paper are popular, as is the famous ping pong ball. I used to use ping pong balls a lot, but lately I find myself mostly using the others because they're more adaptable.

--Rik

Ping pong balls eh? Are you speaking of on-camera flash or something else entirely? I have only seen people use ping pong balls for that purpose alone, this intrigues me......

[rjlittlefield]

Ping pong balls are a partial spherical wraparound diffuser. They were introduced at photomacrography.net by Charles Krebs, who was using them in a microscope setup as a symmetrical hemisphere (half a ball) and continuous illumination through fiber optic bundles. His initial post was HERE in 2004. The method was illustrated in detail HERE.

Similar approaches have since been adopted by many other people, using both direct flash and fiber optic light sources (usually continuous). It has also been adapted in variations such as an oblique hemisphere (HERE) or using more than a hemisphere, with the subject inserted through one hole in the back of a mostly complete ball, while the lens looks through a second hole in the front.

Most of the uses that I've seen have been with light sources separated from the camera, not with on-camera flash which will illuminate only the top portion of the ball.

--Rik

[SONYNUT]

glue it to a rear lens cap with a hole in it