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Canon EOS 60d live view EFC. UPDATED: 7D does EFSC OK
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Pau
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Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Canon EOS 60d live view EFC. UPDATED: 7D does EFSC OK Reply with quote

I've just bought a 60d both for general photography and to mount it on the microscope and for high magnification macro.

One of the things I want (i like to shot with continuous light) is the virtually vibration free Electronic First Shutter Curtain well documented by Charles Krebs in the 50d and Rebel series and never documented by Canon.

My big surprise is that when it starts the exposure in live view silent mode it makes a relatively hard noise and vibration despite I can’t see any part moving (both mirror and shutter stay in its place). I didn't already test if this really induce vibration blur but I think it will do, in any case it's not comparable to my brother's 50d I use sometimes.

Is there any member using a 60d that can confirm if this is normal?

Because I'm in time to change it, Can anyone confirm me that the EOS 7d and 550d have rally this truly quiet EFSC?

I would be most grateful to answers based in real experience.
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Last edited by Pau on Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:46 am; edited 3 times in total
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How disappointing. Evil or Very Mad They don't know what they've got, do they!
You might try Charles' trick of resting a small dish of water on the camera, and watching the reflection while the "silent" operation happens. A jar lid is good.
A laser-pointer fixed to the camera in a dark room works too, but...
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Blame



Joined: 14 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alas, you have fallen victim to one of the nastier bits of misleading marketing.

The canon 60D is a bit of a dog. It is NOT a 50D with more megapixels. Better to think of it as a 550D with a flip out screen and a diet problem.

The 50D is a better camera with aluminium body, Use of the much faster compact flash cards, and most importantly micro adjust.

If you can afford the upgrade go for the 7D which is one hell of a camera.
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Pau
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done a quick and dirty test, with the nikon CFI 10X 0.25 on the 70-200 f4L IS USM at 200mm ,. The subjet is a laser printed copy illuminated with a single Ikea led lamp placed at 40cm to allow both short and long exposures. Camera default settings, levels slightly adjusted in DPP fom raw. Single shots, 100% crops

1- 1/25s at ISO 1600


2- 0.6s at ISO 100


I think is pretty clear that the long exposure one is less blurred (don't pay much attention to other thinks like noise or color, the ISO settings are too different). And, more subjectively, I see the magnified live view in the computer screen more sharp.
So, unfurtunately, I'm convinced that this useful feature is losed in the new camera.

I wait your experiences with both three models, in special if any other is testing his 60d.
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seta666



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know about the 50D or 60D but the 5D mkII and the 1000D definetly make a "Zig" noise, I do not know if it some kind of electronic noise but looks like some mechanism acts
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Blame



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you tried flash?

Always easier to get a steady shot with flash. Even easier in a darkened room because then the only light is coming from the flash which is much shorter duration than the exposure time.

Oh, I didn't see much noise in your iso 1600 shot. Could you have noise reduction switched on? That would explain the blur.
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Pau
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all

Blame,
Well, the noise reduction is set at default, but it isn't the problem, turning it out in DPP the image has the same blur plus noise. About your fist post, I think it's a very nice camera for a decent price. For exemple the high iso images are very good. There are better cameras of course but at much higher prices (almost here in Spain).
In fact I'm thinking more to exchange it for a 550D than for a 7d, a bit reluctant because I like the 60d very much.
I know about flash and use it in some cases, but I want quiet operation to work with continuous light, and I'm very dissapointed with te behavoir of the EFC in this model, it's about this my post

Javier,
I did read about that noise in some posts, but nothing about vibration and blur, the careful test done by Charles with the 50d show no blur at all.
http://krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/index.html
I don't ear a little zig but a noise like something (a motor?) moving and detectable vibration in the hand while handhoding the camera.
Did you preform any test like mine comparing moderately short with long exposures?
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Craig Gerard



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau,

The prosumer path of progression is 50D > 7D.

The 60D jumped ship and is aligned with the 550D target market.

Craig
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Charles Krebs



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau,

Interesting (and possibly discouraging news).

I'll try to take a look at one tomorrow. If I can do so, I'll post what I find here.
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Pau
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig and Blame,
Yes, I often read this kind of opinions at dpreview.com and other sites and I partially agree, but what really matters is what camera can do what you want and how much you need to pay for it.
My personal upgrade line is Olympus OM4 (film) - EOS 20D - EOS 60d(?), not a fast turnover.
Some things like the viewfinder or spot metering were much better in the OM4
60d has some features inferiors to 50d and some better ones (Image Quality in special at high ISO, video...). For my use (mostly landscapes, macro and micro and ocasional family shots) the 60d is OK but a most wanted feature, EFC, seems badly implemented Sad

A 450D is an excellent camera in good hands (Rik, Charles...)
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Pau
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles Krebs wrote:
I'll try to take a look at one tomorrow. If I can do so, I'll post what I find here.


Thanks Charles, it would be a great help!
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Blame



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pau

I don't think the 550D has anything that the 60D lacks but then again the 60D has very little to offer for the additional cost in money and weight.

By all means drop to the 550D, it is good value for money.

I had the 7D and loved it, but it just represented too much money so I sold it. I bought a Sony a900 and pocketed the difference.

I also have had the 550D. It has the same sensor so in theory it can give the same quality of pictures. In practice the 7D was just a lot more fun to use and the micro adjust turned my front focusing sigma 150mm macro into the most brilliant lens ever.
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ChrisLilley



Joined: 01 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:
I think is pretty clear that the long exposure one is less blurred


This is a classical result, 1/15 to 1/30s is the worst affected by mirror slap while exposure times that are either much shorter, or much longer, are not so much affected.

Pau wrote:
(don't pay much attention to other thinks like noise or color, the ISO settings are too different).


I know you said that, but I notice the secondary colour and am surprised that purple is behind the plane of focus and green in front. Assuming the laser printed dots are forward of the paper, not pressed into it.
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realjax



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blame wrote:

I had the 7D and loved it, but it just represented too much money so I sold it. I bought a Sony a900 and pocketed the difference.


Erm.. just out of curiosity but what am I missing here? The Sony a900 is almost twice as expensive as the 7d here in Holland..
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Blame



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

realjax

And in England.. but it is a lot easier to sell a 7D secondhand.

Total cost of sony a900 was £1000 with transport, a tamron 28-75 f/2.8 and 32GB.

I sold the 7D with a canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS and 16GB for £1350 - I am still wondering if I did the right thing.
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