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Microscopes
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Nikonman



Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Leeds Yorkshire UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Microscopes Reply with quote

Hi Everybody, I looking for a microscope and have been offered a

Reichert Polyvar Met 2 Microscope (model no.: 302001) of which I know nothing about
Anybody know anything about this type of microscope
Any information would be helpful


Last edited by Nikonman on Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mitch640



Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 2137

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It even has arm rests, how could you go wrong? Smile
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Charles Krebs



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 5805
Location: Issaquah, WA USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikonman,

A quick Google search yielded an instruction manual here:
http://www.reichertms.com/Manuals/Polyvar%20Met%20Operating%20Instructions.pdf

This is far more complex and modular than anything I have ever used. So all I can offer is very "generic" advice.

Before I got my "biological" Olympus BHS I considered an Olympus Vanox AH2. It was very complex and "automated" (there was actually an auto-focus operation; and just about everything was motorized... x-y stage, objective turret, field stop, aperture stop, and condenser selection, switching between the observation and photography optical path). What made me "nervous" was that so many functions were electronically controlled via control modules that were over 20 years old. I could not determine to my satisfaction if these features could be conveniently manually operated should anything happen to the electronics. My other concern was to insure that it had all the working components I would need, since locating parts (or getting repairs done) for such a relatively esoteric device would not be easy.

While this microscope does not appear to be anywhere near as heavily dependent on motorization and electronics, I would have some similar types of concerns.

It appears to be primarily intended and set up for "epi" observation, although the instruction manual shows transmitted illumination is possible. Microscopes like this had many modular options, and could be set up in many different configurations. So it becomes important to ascertain that it has the components you need for the type of illumination, observation and photography you intend to do (including the objectives, eyepieces, and possibly photoeyepieces). If a critical component is not there it would be a considerable gamble to expect to find it on the used market.

Reichert made some fantastic equipment, and this may be a great deal so my intention is not to steer you away. Just be aware that it's always a good idea with something this modular and complex to be sure everything you need is included and any automated or electronically controlled features are working and/or can be controlled readily in a manual fashion.
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Nikonman



Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Leeds Yorkshire UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Microscopes Reply with quote

Thanks Mitch and Charles for your comments and observations.
I am informed the spec of this microscope is as follows

Reichert Polyvar Met 2 Microscope (model no.: 302001)
· "3 axis” Motorised Stage

· DF, BF, Normarski Interference Contrast modules

· Manual turret with LWD objective lenses (x2.5, x5, x10, x50, x100)

· Leica DFC-320 Video camera

· Window 2000 PC

· Leica QWIN v3 software

I am also told that the cost of this microscope was £105,000 Sterling???? when New

I have tried to check any information through the Internet, but found little information about this particular instrument

What does concern is that if this was the true cost, what would any repairs cost to keep this instrument going

if a failure occurred.

Regards Nikonman
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Mitch640



Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 2137

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it going to break the bank for you to buy this? If not, my thoughts are this, it obviously has manual dials for focus, and a manual objective turret. If the power went out tomorrow, and never came back on, you could still use the scope. And you could buy it, and some board inside could burn out tomorrow, but then, it could burn out in 2050, or never. Think positive, and if you can afford it, buy it. Worry about something going out when it happens. Smile
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Nikonman



Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Leeds Yorkshire UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:16 am    Post subject: Microscopes Reply with quote

There are two microscopes, the second one is as follows

Reichert Polyvar Met Microscope:
· 6” Manual Stage

· DF, BF, Normarski Interference Contrast modules

· Manual turret with LWD objective lenses (x2.5, x5, x10, x50, x100)

· Additional x1.25 objective lens

· Video camera port

· Large format camera 5” x 4”

· Auto Film camera Polaroid 3” x 4”

· Eyepieces (x10)

The microscopes seem to be totally different and so is the cost
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Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4840
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This scopes are very high end stuff and would be excellent for reflected light observation and imaging (incluiding DIC!). For transmited light, that includes the more usual methods of il.lumination in transparent specimens in Biology (and Petrology) them don't seem suitable, even the second one seems totally unable to do so.
If I may ask, about what range of price are you speaking?. If you have the space and the price is really low in your place I would go for it, but if you plan to do transmited light work it would be easier to buy a more normal microscope.
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Blame



Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 342

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how much have you been ask for?

I ask because it is easy to pay too much. On ebay I find that final bid prices are often way lower than asking prices.

You also need far more details on the objectives.
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Nikonman



Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Leeds Yorkshire UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: microscopes Reply with quote

At this stage, costs cannot be disclosed.These microscopes are not in the public domain and are being disposed by a International Lab.They assure me that they have not seen much use and are in perfect working order with full service history from local qualified microscope agents
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NikonUser



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 2575
Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the best way to approach microscope work was to determine what you want to look at/photograph and then find a practitioner whose work you admire. See what he/she uses in the way of equipment.
Several excellent practitioners on PMG.net. I especially like Charles Krebs work; he uses an Olympus BHS system. The scope in itself doesn't guarantee good results but it does show what it is capable of.
I now use a BHS and can highly recommend it.
If that scope is in the $2,000.00-$3,000.00 range then it is perhaps worth considering a BHS as an alternative. If more than $3,000.00 then a BHS looks even a better buy.
_________________
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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Mitch640



Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 2137

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Google is your friend. It seems there are a lot of these out there, and some are for sale. They all look like first class equipment and you will not have any trouble getting someone to work on it, if need be.

Reichert Microscope Services is a complete microscope and spare parts service center.

Here's one for sale.

Owners Manual.

E-bay sale.

Another for sale.

Here's some objective lenses for sale.

Didn't look for some sample images from this brand.
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Charles Krebs



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 5805
Location: Issaquah, WA USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tucked away in my earlier, somewhat rambling post I mentioned:
Quote:
So it becomes important to ascertain that it has the components you need for the type of illumination, observation and photography you intend to do
I was a little too measured. NU and Pau get right to the point....

NikonUser:
Quote:
I found the best way to approach microscope work was to determine what you want to look at/photograph

Pau:
Quote:
For transmited light, that includes the more usual methods of il.lumination in transparent specimens in Biology (and Petrology) them don't seem suitable, even the second one seems totally unable to do so.

Indeed, the very first thing to do is to make a good assessment of the types of subjects in which you are most interested. Then find the right instrument. An analogy.. if you really need to buy a good 4wd pick-up truck in order to put in a supply of wood for the winter, but you come across a fantastic deal on a Ferrari.... well it may be an unbelievable and tempting deal, but it won't do the work you want accomplished.

What subjects are you primarily interested in viewing/photographing?

These microscopes are set up for "epi" illumination of opaque subjects. It appears that the second one does not have any provisions for transmitted illumination (light source in base, condenser). From the picture I can't see if the first one has the proper components for transmitted light.

The Polyvar could be configured for just about any subject or type of illumination desired, but are these configured properly for your desired observation methods?

Another very important (subject dependent) thing you need to consider is the objectives
Quote:
.· Manual turret with LWD objective lenses (x2.5, x5, x10, x50, x100)
I don't know the specs for these. It is likely they are "Epi" objectives, and if so, are designed to be used with no cover slips. They would be OK with cover slips up to about a 0.40 numerical aperture (so the 2.5X, 5X, and 10X would be OK), but (if they are "epi") the 50X and 100X could not be used for biological subjects that were mounted with a cover slip. (Well they could be used, but there will be a significant image quality loss).

With transmitted illumination (mounted slides) users are less concerned with working distance, and more concerned with a quality objective with as high a numerical aperture as possible (the higher the NA, the higher the resolution potential). LWD objectives will often have average, or lower than average NA's.

Again, not trying to steer you away. I still have no idea of the subject matter you are interest in, and have only a basic notion of the way these microscopes are set up. I have no idea of the degree of your familiarity with microscope equipment. (And I have absolutely no idea of the prices involved, or your financial situation!). Reichert equipment of this era is absolutely "top shelf"... would I like to have one of these... you bet! But it appears to me that the way they are configured right now, I could not use them for most of my (personal) favorite subjects.
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Blame



Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 342

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"costs cannot be disclosed"

Huh, why? Have you signed a secrecy agreement? Do you think one of us is going to track down this microscope and make a better offer?

Could it be that the seller is trying to ensure you don't get proper independent advice?

Now in valuing an object it is a good idea to try breaking it down into the value of its parts.

A very high proportion of the value here is in the objectives and optics. You need to find full specifications for them.

The remainder is less easy to value, and not at all easy to resell.

To give you some idea what a fairly old, professional, fully working, but not particularly well know microscope can sell for - I won this on Ebay for roughly $200 delivered.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110602783141&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It is nowhere as big or as imposing as the ones you have been offered, but they may not do anything more that you want done. If they give higher quality results it will be due to better objectives and optics - so make sure you know how good they are.

It is not unknown for traders to strip off the good bits and replace with poor quality before selling.
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Nikonman



Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Leeds Yorkshire UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Microscopes Reply with quote

The reason I cannot disclose costs is because they are still on going. The information that members are helpfully giving me allows me to question the seller and possibly help me in the negotiations
I think the most important point that has been made, is, will it do what I want in my photography needs, and are they two big sledge hammers which are cracking a small nut.
To use Charles analogy, with regards to cars, If you take a Formula One driver as being 10 out 10, well I am still looking for a place to put the "L" Plates on! in my microscope education

The view of looking for a mentor who is doing the same kind of work I intend to do, and seeing the equipment they use makes extremely good sense.

Having seen the quality of photography shown on this forum, I have come to the conclusion that money, is only slightly helpful, where has ingenuity, skill, knowledge and time, bring out the best results which I am trying to emulate
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g4lab



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1434

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw one of these about 1980 or 81. At that time it was about the most magnificent scope I had ever seen. Reichert of Vienna telling Leitz and Zeiss to "Take that!" and rather effectively. I was working at a microscope dealer. I don't know why this came through perhaps Reichert wanted us to carry it. It was the only one I ever saw in person. It was brand new.

It was modular, very widefield, and very bright. A state of the art research stand. And if the ZetoPan enthusiasts, that I have run across, are any indication, then you could not go wrong buying this.

It reminds me a bit of the Wild M400. The best in its class, but not well known, because it was so expensive, that few were sold.

The only caution I would make is that because it is not as widely sold as corresponding scopes from other manufacturer's it will be harder to get service, parts, and accessories. If you get them from Reichert (providing they still have them) they will be expensive. And if you go to sell it you may have a correspondingly harder time finding an able buyer who is also discerning enough to know about it and want it. You did not mention whether you were buying this for yourself or for resale.

The PolyVar screams quality at every facet.
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