Broken fine focus knob on labophot2 type block, pls help

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pludder
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:03 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Post by pludder »

Success! :) Changing the knob was very simple, first I removed the coarse focus knob with the three ph screws, then I needed a 1.5 mm hex key for the two set screws in the small brass ring, after loosening them, the rest of the old knob just slid off the shaft. The brass ring had a protrusion that connected it to the end of the plasic fine focus knob, so no glue needed in the reassembly to keep it from spinning or anything, just retighten the set screws in the ring and slide on the new knob and then tighten that down with the external nut.

Thanks to all that helped out with suggestions and information!

/Per

Craig Gerard
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Post by Craig Gerard »

Good to hear of your success :)

Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

PauloM
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Location: Portugal

Post by PauloM »

While we're on this subject, and since I also have a Nikon microscope (Optiphot) with a bad fine focus shaft (broken nylon gear), I would appreciate some insights on the issue of lubrication.

From what I've read, the main reason why so many nylon gears get broken on these shafts is the lack of regular lubrication: the existing lube dries up, and the gear has to progressively put up with an increasing amount of mechanical resistance, up to the point where it breaks. On my Optiphot this gear had actually split in two. Same thing had happened to the condenser's focusing gear.

If I'm correct, simply exchanging the fine focusing shaft with a new one with an intact gear will not solve the underlying problem, and this new shaft will, in time, end up with a broken gear as well.

Now for my two-fold question:

How should one go about solving this problem? Lube the gears leaving the old lube in place, or remove the old lube first? Since some of the gears being lubed are made of plastic (nylon?), what solvent, if any, should be used that will dissolve the old grease without damaging the plastic? Or would something like soap, toothbrush and elbow grease be more appropriate?

Nikon had some "special" lubricants for this purpose. According to some service manuals that i've seen, they had more than one type of lube, and the lube to be applied to gear A is the not same that should be applied to gear B. The said service manuals identify the lubes by it's part number, giving no clues as to their composition.

Outside of a Nikon repair shop, what lubes and greases can one use that would more closely match Nikon's stuff?

Thanks.
Paulo

Choronzon
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Location: Chicago USA

Post by Choronzon »

Paulo, on the issue of lubrication. It needs to be done, if it hasn't been done ever, poorly, or in the last 5 years. Japanese microscopes are very lubrication dependant. But here's the scoop. Some of the lubricants used are not very long lasting in their effectiveness. They tend to dry out, causing mechanical consequences. Combined with plastic components, this equates to hard failure. If you're a Japanese microscope user of instruments from the 50's to mid 90's, you need to keep a close eye on your system mechanical functions. Paulo, on the Nikon Labophot One, the grease specified for the coarse focus mechanism is G-7920. What it really needed was their L-3047. Amazingly expensive, but amazingly effective. L-3047 is like a very heavy oil, and I have never seen a non microscope equivelant. You can buy it from Nikon, but you will need to know it's uber-expensive. The other grease used in this mechanism is G7910. Lighter than the 7920, it's used in the planetary gear axles (the small gears in the coarse knob, and the gear cases. Now, you can get by with Vasoline if you have to, it won't damage anything, but I wouldn't recommend it because I have no experience with it other than findinng it in microscopes repaired by lens wipers. And that's ok for a quick fix, but migrates easily and leaves things high and dry as it were.
I have used these products in the past, but have since gone back to the manufacturer's recommended products, as price is no longer an issue.
http://nyelubricants.com/damping/
One last word of advice, very light grease on dovetails, heavy grease on pinions, and in between on bearings.
It's all about surface tension.
I am not young enough to know everything.

sonyalpha
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Post by sonyalpha »

I'm not a user of microscopes................but I used to fit and repair locks and sliding door and window mechanisms long time ago; many had nylon gears:

We used a graphite paste as lubrication back then........exactly the same stuff that makes up much of a pencil lead...in fact...we carried a soft pencil around with us to rub on small parts and on to Yale type keys...it worked really well:

Graphite paste is a bit messy though so keep it away from your optics:

sonyalpha
Retired but not old in spirit:

Fairly new to photography........keen to learn:

shrek
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:37 am
Location: Toulouse (France)

Post by shrek »

In my job ,I used for aéronautical engine this grease
http://www.magnalube.com/technical.html
the price for one is not too expensive

jp

PauloM
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 4:49 am
Location: Portugal

Post by PauloM »

Thank you all for your replies. I'm sorry that I didn't write this sooner, but I just came back from vacation where I had extremely limited internet access.

There was just one of my questions that was left unanswered, and it pertains to the matter of the dried up grease that's on the microscope right now: what's the best way to remove it, or should it be left in place and new grease applied on top of it?

I can think of a number of solvents that would do a good job of removing the grease; unfortunately, they would also do a good job of destroying the plastic/nylon gears. With my limited knowledge of repairing/servicing these types of instruments, the only thing that I'm sure would be safe to use near plastic is soap, and I'm not sure how good a job at removing these types of greases it would do; It didn't seem to do much of a job at removing them from my hands...


Thanks in advance for your time.
P

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

Paulo,

I'll leave it to Choronzon and Gene to give you official answers.

Un-officially...
I had to replace the fine focus shaft/plastic pinion gear on a couple of Labophots (same as the Optiphot). Without a doubt these were broken due to the hardening of the grease in the focus mechanism. If these gears were maintained with proper lube I seriously doubt this common problem would occur. The only "silver lining" to this plastic gear breaking is that it seems to prevent damage to the more intricate metal gear-train in the fine focus mechanism.

I used two things to remove old grease (separately, not mixed!) ... an automotive parts cleaner and xylene. (Both should obviously be used with the proper ventilation and handling concerns). For re-lubing I used the Nye damping grease recommended for this purpose (offhand can't remember the exact # designation). Neither of the cleaners seemed to have any effect on the "plastic" gear part... although other than a large pressure disk and the broken pinion gear I seem to recall everything else was metal. I didn't completely disassemble the small metal gear-train. I placed absorbent cloth underneath and used a small stiff brush to clean out the old lube. Took a while, but I don't like playing with separate small gears (or ball-bearings) unless absolutely necessary :wink: . Beautifully smooth movement when finished.

I think this has been mentioned before, but the only place I'm aware of where a metal replacement is available is here. (I believe Nikon no longer has a replacement part for this shaft/gear).

g4lab
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 11:07 am

Post by g4lab »

I don't know how official this is but I have used two different approaches
to the stiffened lubricant problem.

One is what you and Charles have been talking about which is to use usually a spray chlorinated hydrocarbon spray cleaner to cut and remove the old lubricants. Charles mentioned automotive cleaners. You have to be a bit careful in that aisle because many automotive cleaners are "carburator cleaners" and are essentially thin spray, paint removers. Very strong solvents likely to damage the plastic.

Products labeled brake cleaner or general cleaner degreaser are similar and could be used.

Xylene is an ingredient of carb cleaner and paint remover and is very strong and will cut almost anything. But most nylon gears could survive exposure to it. But I think I would reach for something weaker. Electronic spray cleaner is likely to be safer for plastics.


Then you relube with a lubricant labeled "Safe for use on plastics"
My favorite for this purpose is teflon based grease designed for use in high vacuum environments. It will never oxidize in my lifetime nor that of my grand kids. It is expensive and hard to find. It is not the best lubricant either. You want to figure out whether the viscosity of the lubricant will affect the operation of the unit being worked on, as for example course focusing dovetails and racks.
http://www.sandsmachine.com/grease_t.htm

Another approach is what I call freshening the lubricants. Greases are mixtures of oils and waxes and fats (and also soaps and emulsifiers) designed to have particular characteristics. When they age these different components may oxidize or polymerize or both. They dry up. Sometimes you can return to a reasonable facsimile of normal function by adding a lubricant. The first that would come to mind is WD40 which you really should not use except for cleaning. (It wont hurt nylon btw) Its not a very good lubricant and doesn't stay well. But there are similar products that have teflon dispersed in them and whose solvents are labeled as safe for plastics. They have names like TriFlow and TriFlon.

Another thing I use to soften up old grease is a drop or two of whale oil.
(which I found in an old engineering school storeroom labeled"Sperm Oil" and rescued from being tossed) Of course whale oil , which is how messers Nye got their start , making watch and clock oils out of whale oil, is not going to be terrrbly easy to find. However apparently a suitable substitute is found in jojoba oil which is very easy to find and inexpensive.

Sometimes just adding one of the above products and operating the gears to mix it will refresh the lubricants to the point where total cleaning and replacement may not be necessary.

Remember to make certain that nothing that goes on any optical gear can contain silicone oils. Be rigorous about this. Don't even let such products on your bench. Silicone oils spread continuously down to monolayers. They get into cemented lens elements and cause them to separate.

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