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Wild Heerbrugg M5a

 
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Marc T



Joined: 07 Dec 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Wiltshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:08 am    Post subject: Wild Heerbrugg M5a Reply with quote

I stumbled across Wild Heerbrugg M5a before Christmas does anyone have a manual for it. I did own an Wild Heerbrugg M8 which came with the phototube model 4014891. I also have for my meiji phototube MA512 - Photo-eyepiece 2.5X. Can these two be used together?

Thanking in advance, if this cannot be dealt with here could you point me in the right direction

Regards Marc
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Alan Wood



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 311
Location: Near London, U.K.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marc

You can get free PDFs of the brochure and instructions for the M5 (not M5A) here:
http://www.science-info.net/docs/wild/

You can buy M5A instructions here:
https://www.classicoptics.com/wild-manuals.php
http://shop.wild-heerbrugg.com/index.php?language=en&cPath=1_9_38

These links came from this page on the Quekett Microscopical Club website:
http://www.quekett.org/resources/links/manuals

Alan Wood
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4913
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Marc,
I use the M5Apo (the very same M5A with apo 1X objective that is good but not really apochromatic) and I can email you the M5A/M5Apo brochure in French and a parts number document.
If interested, please drop me a PM .

Quote:
....Can these two be used together?


The only compatible phototube, heads and objectives are from the older M5 and from the M5A clones and derivatives Motic K series
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houstontx



Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 278

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another photo tube adapter option I use for my m5a (nikon 2.5x):

https://blog.noq2.net/wild-m8-phototube-and-coaxial-lighting.html
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Scarodactyl



Joined: 14 Apr 2018
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The m5 and m8 will probably be somewhat different. Among other things the m5 are (far as I can tell) finite while the other m series are infinity corrected. Really nice to know the nikon eyepiece works on the m series--there is a fair amount of compatibility there it seems.
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jfiresto



Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

houstontx wrote:
another photo tube adapter option I use for my m5a (nikon 2.5x):

https://blog.noq2.net/wild-m8-phototube-and-coaxial-lighting.html


Wow. Does a 180570 photo tube fit an M5A? My impression is that the two were incompatibly keyed.
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Pau
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scarodactyl wrote:
The m5 and m8 will probably be somewhat different. Among other things the m5 are (far as I can tell) finite while the other m series are infinity corrected. Really nice to know the nikon eyepiece works on the m series--there is a fair amount of compatibility there it seems.


The tubes of M5/M5A and M8 (and M3...) are completely different and non compatible: M5 has the mounting dovetail surrounded by the optical paths wile the M8 has the optical paths much closer and surrounded by the dovetail like most others CMO scopes.

Both are infinite corrected, AFAIK

The M5A works well with no name chinese stereomicroscope eyepieces, although I prefer the high contrast of the original Wild ones
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Scarodactyl



Joined: 14 Apr 2018
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:

The tubes of M5/M5A and M8 (and M3...) are completely different and non compatible: M5 has the mounting dovetail surrounded by the optical paths wile the M8 has the optical paths much closer and surrounded by the dovetail like most others CMO scopes.

This is absolutely true, I didn't realize he was asking about using the M8 photo tube on an M5. I just meant the Nikon 2.5x might not necessarily work on the M5 (assuming you already had the correct photo tube) just because it works on the rest of the M series. Though if the M5 eyepieces are compatible with the M3 (which I think they are) it would probably follow that what works in the M3 works in the M5.

It's probably easiest to just buy one of the Motic photo tubes with an slr photo eyepiece included. Their M3 and M7 clones (at least the older ones I have tried) are both exceptional. That said you can get an original tube for a reasonable price on eBay sometimes, I'm just not sure what the best way to hook an slr up to one is.

If you want to go crazy they also made a photo head that was designed for swapping the camera from one eye to the other for true stereo photos. there's one on eBay for not too much, though again actually hooking up the camera to take stereo shots could be a challenge https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wild-Heerbrugg-Praktika-Edixa-Stereo-Microscope-Photo-Tube/233409464306

Pau wrote:
Both are infinite corrected, AFAIK

It may be, I kind of thought it wasn't (at least not the same way the rest are) for two reasons. First, I have a phototube for one (for mounting a camera only with no viewing eyepieces) and it does not have a tube lens in it, unlike one for the M3+ series. The intermediate phototube also adds a 25% magnification factor, which shouldn't occur in an infinite system. I think (?) the objectives are compatible with M3 scopes and thus probably do project an infinity-focused image, but then presumably the telescopes in the body act as tube lenses rather than reprojecting to infinity as in the rest of the M series. I certainly can't guarantee that since I've never owned a full m5 system much less taken one apart.
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jfiresto



Joined: 18 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scarodactyl wrote:
Pau wrote:
Both are infinite corrected, AFAIK

... I think (?) the [M5/M5A] objectives are compatible with M3 scopes and thus probably do project an infinity-focused image....

Yes times three. The objective of my later production (25mm shaft) Wild M3 has part number 370789. The M5A Wild spare parts catalog (1977) gives that part number for its main objective on pages 1 and 6 (Hauptobjektiv gefasst MOB95). If you still have any doubts, a web search on the number also gives hits to some M5/M5As.

(As an aside, I find it amusing that if you flip an M3's magnification to 16X and pull the binocular head, you can stare straight down at the objective's exit lens.)
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Rorschach



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfiresto wrote:
Scarodactyl wrote:
Pau wrote:
Both are infinite corrected, AFAIK

... I think (?) the [M5/M5A] objectives are compatible with M3 scopes and thus probably do project an infinity-focused image....

Yes times three. The objective of my later production (25mm shaft) Wild M3 has part number 370789. The M5A Wild spare parts catalog (1977) gives that part number for its main objective on pages 1 and 6 (Hauptobjektiv gefasst MOB95). If you still have any doubts, a web search on the number also gives hits to some M5/M5As.

(As an aside, I find it amusing that if you flip an M3's magnification to 16X and pull the binocular head, you can stare straight down at the objective's exit lens.)


The thread pitch of the M3B/M3C/M3Z objectives is different from the original M3 . So they will not really fit, unless you force them, likely making the installation "once in a a life time", i.e. permanent by destroying the thread.

So I guess the M5/M5A objectives are only compatible with the original M3, right? I've never had an original M3 (and likely never will), so I can't verify.
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scarodactyl wrote:
Pau wrote:
Both are infinite corrected, AFAIK

It may be, I kind of thought it wasn't (at least not the same way the rest are) for two reasons. First, I have a phototube for one (for mounting a camera only with no viewing eyepieces) and it does not have a tube lens in it, unlike one for the M3+ series. The intermediate phototube also adds a 25% magnification factor, which shouldn't occur in an infinite system...
... I certainly can't guarantee that since I've never owned a full m5 system much less taken one apart.


I've done some visual tests which seem to confirm your guess about the M5A not being infinite corrected:
- I focus the microscope at a high contrast subject, I remove its head and if I look directly at the tubes I can't see a focused image. When I put a tracing paper over it there is an image focused at about 160mm over the microscope body as it does if I place there an eyepiece
- If I look through the eyepieces with the head but without microscope I can't see a focussed image at infinite (nor at any distance)
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Pau
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I'm testing a Nikon SMZ1000 with its original phototube and when compared with the Wild M5Apo the question becames clear: the Wild is not an infinite system while the Nikon is.
The SMZ1000 zoom body allows to see the image with the naked eye while the binocular head alone with the eyepieces allows to see focused objects at infinite (it must have some kind of tube lens inside, I guess)

The Nikon phototube projects a focused image about 59mm over its end (useful for direct projection) so it could have a tube lens (not visible) inside

The behavior of the M5Apo is very different

Scarodactyl, thanks for telling your thoughts!
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