LWD Optosigma objectives.

[Macro_Cosmos]

Not sure about this but I got a set of these.
https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/eo-infin ... ves/13506/

Will see if I'll be able to compare them against the mit 10x and 20x. They are considerably cheaper than the Mitutoyo lenses. Maybe they are white labelled mits? Not going to jump to any conclusions until I get to try them for photomacrography.

[Scarodactyl]

EO m plan apos are white labeled optems. Pretty solid reputation though.
(edit: old post but I wanted to correct this even though it's addressed later in the thread, EO HR objectives are optems but their m plan apos are motics).

[Chris S.]

Not sure about this but I got a set of these.
https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/eo-infin ... ves/13506/

Will see if I'll be able to compare them against the mit 10x and 20x. They are considerably cheaper than the Mitutoyo lenses.

That will be an interesting test. Looking forward to seeing it.

--Chris S.

[abednego1995]

The LU plans from Nikon suffer from CA even with the Fluor series.
However, the TU Plans are completely a different game with their
use of phase fresnel elements. The TU Plan ELWD 20x is my
favorite.

BR,
John

[Chris S.]

Note, too, that the numerical apertures are small for a couple of the lenses. The 20x has NA 0.30 (more normal for a 10x); the 50x has NA 0.42. As we know, lower NA means lower resolution.

--Chris S.

I noticed that too, but I always thought it was a "normal" value for this type of long distance inspection lenses ...

Always puzzled me why Mitutoyo M plan APO have so low NA values ... well bellow Nikon or Olympus Fluorite lenses. Mitutoyo 10X 0.28 is below an FL, which usually has an NA of 30 ...

that part I thought it was " normal". The OptoSigma 10x is 0.30 .. the Mitutoyo M plan is only 0.28...

Yawns,

The Mitutoyo M Plan APO lenses trade numerical aperture for working distance. For subjects that are not flat, this trade-off can be well worth it.

What I was trying to point out is that some of the OptoSigma LWD objectives have much lower NA's than the Mitutoyo objectives many of us use.

I doubt that the difference between NA 0.28 and NA 0.30 is significant. On the other hand, the difference between NA 0.42 and NA 0.30 (Mitutoyo 20x vs. OptoSigma 20x) is definitely significant. So is NA 0.55 vs NA 0.42 (Mitutoyo 50x vs. OptoSigma 50x).

Here again, though, comes the issue of trade-offs. The OptoSigma 20x and 50x each have more working distance than the Mitutoyo objectives we generally use. Mitutoyo does make some objectives with lower NA and even longer WD--the SL (Super Long) series. For most of us at this forum, objectives in this series represent a poor trade-off of NA vs. WD--more WD than we need, and less NA than we want. They are seldom used, here.

--Chris S.

[RobertOToole]

The LU plans from Nikon suffer from CA even with the Fluor series.
However, the TU Plans are completely a different game with their
use of phase fresnel elements. The TU Plan ELWD 20x is my
favorite.

BR,
John

TU Plan, and T Plans, have been for almost 10 years now (released in 2012 maybe) and I picked up two in 2017, thinking wow the specs on these new lenses looks amazing, turns out only a few of the TUs actually have fresnel technology, mostly 50x-150x, these are the APO TU Plans, 50-100x, the TU Plan ELWD, 20x-100x, and the T Plan SLWD, 10-100x. Only one 10x (SLWD) with fresnel technology and nothing below it, at least back then.

I wish I could tell you how well my TUs perform, both my objectives came from China and were both unusable, non-fresnel type (5x and 10x) and non-returnable.

Robert

[Yawns]

Thank you all for the inputs and the interesting discussion that developed...

I'm looking for sometime now... (and I'm in Europe)

On eBay rarely there are Mitutoyos located in Europe. (currently I only can find Seiwa and Motic (10X) .. "similar" objectives., for around 600 euros. No way...

In the past couple weeks there was one NEW (10x Mitutoyo - Europe) for 350 euros (base bid...) or 520 Buy now..... in the first week there was no bids (and I suspect there was a hidden reserve price.. he was having it on other items) .. in the second week the "buy now" option disappeared .. I did not get interested as it was sounding strange for me... his rate was 12 or 13 (but also as a buyer) .. the shipping was 1 euro... i did not feel comfortable.

On the eBay USA side.. asked price for a 5X is currently around 400-500.. 600 for the 10X.
Under that usually the lenses have very bad cosmetics and really hard use...

After taxes and shipping those prices are not attractive... for less than a couple of hundreds more I buy NEW from a good source .. used you never know the real condition, the history and the origin.

(and I don't buy anything that is not under the "Global Shipping Program".. Like to pay the taxes at buy, and don't have surprises at Customs , and also have to deal with all the Custom paperwork...

prices from Thorlabs Or Edmund are very similar.. and EO "similar" objectives are not attractive too.. only 100-180 euros less...

Screenshot 2020-01-24 at 23.08.46 by antonio caseiro, on Flickr

Next week I am going to have an angioplasty (with application of stents) in my other coronary... if the Hospital leaves me with some money .. I'm going for new ones at Edmund's...

[abednego1995]

TU Plan, and T Plans, have been for almost 10 years now (released in 2012 maybe) and I picked up two in 2017, thinking wow the specs on these new lenses looks amazing, turns out only a few of the TUs actually have fresnel technology, mostly 50x-150x, these are the APO TU Plans, 50-100x, the TU Plan ELWD, 20x-100x, and the T Plan SLWD, 10-100x. Only one 10x (SLWD)

I wish I could tell you how well my TUs perform, both my objectives came from China and were both unusable, non-fresnel type (5x and 10x) and non-returnable.

Robert

Ah, yes that is actually an important point. Their marketing is a bit misleading there.
Fortunately I’ve only used the TU Plan 20x ELWD and the Plan Apo 50x, but both are a great improvement over the LUs. (I care less about WD since I use a microscope) The ELWD 20x being more surprising as I didn’t expect it to perform so well. I’ll try to get side by side comparisons on another thread.

I’m interested in the T Plan SLWD series, but there seems to be very little user info around. Does anyone have experiences??

BR
John

[RobertOToole]

.....
Next week I am going to have an angioplasty (with application of stents) in my other coronary... if the Hospital leaves me with some money .. I'm going for new ones at Edmund's...

Best of luck for a quick and easy procedure, I went through something similar in June last year.

Best,

Robert

[Chris S.]

I'm going for new ones at Edmund's...

Antonio,

At least here in the U.S., Thorlabs and Edmund Optics are are both excellent companies to deal with. If European Thorlabs is a little bit cheaper than European Edmund Optics, why not save that bit of money and purchase your Mitutoyo objectives from Thorlabs?

Good luck with your angioplasty!

--Chris S.

[Scarodactyl]

Plus, thorlabs includes lab snacks in their packages.

[Macro_Cosmos]

EO m plan apos are white labeled optems. Pretty solid reputation though.

Wait, are they? Which optem? I believe their so called HR ones are reskinned optems.
https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/eo-high- ... ves/13116/
http://www.qioptiq.com/optem-high-resolution.html

It's said that their image circle is small, a review on coinphotography seems to agree too, and many statements from forum users who have tried the lens. This led me to warn a friend who wanted to buy a set for photography, using his d850 which is FX.

Here's the M Plan LWD ones:
http://www.qioptiq.com/optem-m-plan.html
https://www.edmundoptics.com/p/10x-eo-m ... ted/16535/
The 10 has an NA of 0.28 for EO and 0.3 for Optem, quite different but not exactly... that different. The rest seems the same, so perhaps you're right.

Plus, thorlabs includes lab snacks in their packages.

That did get me into trouble with customs once.
Also if one buys directly from Thorlabs' site, ie not using a freight forwarder, snacks aren't included. I quite like those snacks.

Thank you all for the inputs and the interesting discussion that developed...

I'm looking for sometime now... (and I'm in Europe)

On eBay rarely there are Mitutoyos located in Europe. (currently I only can find Seiwa and Motic (10X) .. "similar" objectives., for around 600 euros. No way...

After taxes and shipping those prices are not attractive... for less than a couple of hundreds more I buy NEW from a good source .. used you never know the real condition, the history and the origin.

Your justification of buying new 5x and 10x is entirely rational and logical. You're right on the money. This is why I bought my 10x new. It wasn't much more expensive than a used copy unless one's in China where used 10x Mits can be had for like 2500 yuan ~330 euros. But then, is the gamble truly worth it? I ended up paying 5500 yuan for a new copy of the 10x, bought from a supplier I know.

When it comes to Europe, it doesn't make too much sense to import a used copy. I've done calculations myself too and arrived at your exact conclusion. The new 10x and 5x mits aren't exactly expensive given Europe's generally higher income. The jump to 20x however is drastic, where a used copy would make sense. It's better to travel to places such as China and get surplus stuff or Japan to buy new copies (the price of a 10x outside of Japan gets you both 5x and 10x). Of course I don't recommend it now, that scary virus... Hope my friends and family are ok.

That said, there's always methods to dance around customs. This depends on whether you're willing to do so or not. I'm not here to argue about the ethics involved. Doing so would make surplus goods worthwhile. Most ebay sellers such as myself will be happy to provide assistance. If you want to know the methods, send me a PM.

As for global shipping program, my 3 experiences with them was very bad.
PB-4 Nikon bellows: Broke, got a partial refund from the seller
Various crystals: Shattered, refunded
Wooden tripod: Customs trouble
I take a bit of blame for the last one, but the first and second case isn't excusable. This is just my personal experience, I nowadays use freight forwarders. What they essentially do is gather packages, shove them into one box and send it. Saves a lot on shipping and one can ask them to overpack stuff to ensure safety.