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Scan Nikkor ED 7-Element for Camera-Scan

 
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RichardKarash



Joined: 11 Nov 2019
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject: Scan Nikkor ED 7-Element for Camera-Scan Reply with quote

Looking for advice and experience in using this lens (from CoolScan 4000, 5000).

I'm looking to use this lens for Camera-scan of 35mm.

My understanding:
- Optimal conjugates are 1.33x, with the dot towards the sensor, or 0.75x with the dot towards the subject.
- Image circle would be at least, and probably not much more than, 24mm on the smaller side, and 32mm on the larger side.
- Diagonal for 35mm film is 43.3mm and diagonal for APS sensor is 28.8mm. So, we cannot cover the 35mm image area on either side.
- Lens is 40mm focal length, and about f/2

Issues / Questions:

- How to use this lens for camera scan? The image circle sizes make it a real puzzle.

- At 1.33x to an APS body, a partial capture from a 35mm chrome, I get excellent sharp result in the middle, but from about 2/3 out on the APS diagonal, it's significantly less sharp, less reveal of grain, than most of my good macro lenses. Anyone else seen this? I'm tempted to conclude this is non-flatness of the mounted slide. (Note: testing with a USAF 1951 glass target, at 1.33x, I get fine results across the APS image area.)

- Each lens has a dot. On the long axis, the dot indicates which way to mount the lens, toward the sensor in the CoolScan. But I also see that in every case I can find, the dot is on top, not on the side, or in any other orientation. Is it possible each lens has been tested and this is the best orientation in the sensor?
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 3941
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A scanner works by moving the slide in one direction, usually the long direction, and making line scans during the motion. The lens usually only has to cover the short side of the slide (24mm). The dot on a scan lens usually indicates the orientation of the lens that gives the highest quality on the line sensor. This is why all the scanner copies you have seen have the dot in the same orientation. The manufacturer has to orient the lens to match the sensor, so all scanners of a given model will have their lenses with the dot facing the same direction.

For normal photographic copying of 35mm slides, a larger-format scanner lens is needed, like the Coolscan 8000 or 9000 lenses, or a Repro or Printing Nikkor (like the famous 105mm Printing Nikkor), or a good macro lens that goes to 1:1.
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RichardKarash



Joined: 11 Nov 2019
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
For normal photographic copying of 35mm slides, a larger-format scanner lens is needed, like the Coolscan 8000 or 9000 lenses, or a Repro or Printing Nikkor (like the famous 105mm Printing Nikkor), or a good macro lens that goes to 1:1.


Thanks, Lou. Yes, I'm seeing things just as you say. I have some of those lenses, and have a number of test comparisons. A good legacy macro, the APO Rodagon D 1x, the 70mm Sigma Macro ART are all good and easy to use.

But, I'm curious if anyone here has figured out a good way to use this lens. At 1.33x, the Scan Nikkor ED 7 Element has quite good resolution. Just don't know how to put it to good use for camera scanning.
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Olaf G



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Lou says, the 7 element Scanner Nikkor is designed to cover 24mm on the object size and approx. 32mm on the sensor side, i.e. 1.33x magnification. The dot shows towards the sensor, it doesn't perform well on full frame the other way around. I like it for hiking on full frame when corner quality is not critical, but for a 35mm scan the 14 element Scanner Nikkor (or another lens with bigger image circle) is the way to go...
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1482
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Scan Nikkor ED 7-Element for Camera-Scan Reply with quote

RichardKarash wrote:
Looking for advice and experience in using this lens (from CoolScan 4000, 5000).

I'm looking to use this lens for Camera-scan of 35mm.

My understanding:
- Optimal conjugates are 1.33x, with the dot towards the sensor, or 0.75x with the dot towards the subject.
- Image circle would be at least, and probably not much more than, 24mm on the smaller side, and 32mm on the larger side.
- Diagonal for 35mm film is 43.3mm and diagonal for APS sensor is 28.8mm. So, we cannot cover the 35mm image area on either side.
- Lens is 40mm focal length, and about f/2

Issues / Questions:

- How to use this lens for camera scan? The image circle sizes make it a real puzzle.

- At 1.33x to an APS body, a partial capture from a 35mm chrome, I get excellent sharp result in the middle, but from about 2/3 out on the APS diagonal, it's significantly less sharp, less reveal of grain, than most of my good macro lenses. Anyone else seen this? I'm tempted to conclude this is non-flatness of the mounted slide. (Note: testing with a USAF 1951 glass target, at 1.33x, I get fine results across the APS image area.)

- Each lens has a dot. On the long axis, the dot indicates which way to mount the lens, toward the sensor in the CoolScan. But I also see that in every case I can find, the dot is on top, not on the side, or in any other orientation. Is it possible each lens has been tested and this is the best orientation in the sensor?


Couple of notes.


The 7 element Scanner-Nikkor lens can be found in these scanners:

Coolscan IV ED LS-40
Coolscan V ED LS-50
Super Coolscan 4000 ED LS-4000ED
Super Coolscan 5000 ED LS-5000ED

The lens measures out at 45mm and F/2.6 for photography and f/2.8 the wrong way, at least that was what I found when I measured one about 2 years ago. Also can confirm from a recent test (yesterday), the lens is an f/2.6-2.8, judging by the amount of light used to make the test exposure.

White lens mark, or dot, should face the camera sensor for photography over 1x.

https://www.closeuphotography.com/scanner-nikkor-ed-7-element-lens

Also I tested the lens at 2x:

https://www.closeuphotography.com/2x-lens-test

Just finished up a comparison of the Scanner-Nikkor 45mm and the Polaroid SS 4000 lens yesterday.

https://www.closeuphotography.com/polaroid-4000-scanner-lens-test

Coverage was very good for both lenses at 1.35x on APS-C. I would go to the larger 14 element Scanner-Nikkor for best results scanning 35mm film.

Best,

Robert
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