Easy to use setup for photographing with Leitz microscope?

[3phemeral]

Hi,
My father's looking for an easy-to-use setup for digital photography for medical purposes using his Leitz microscope. He's got a Leitz Trinocular Head 512 815/20 as well, which I believe should help with the photography (the inside diameter of the head is 38mm, in case that makes a difference).

What equipment does he need to be able to take pictures using the microscope? Main consideration is ease-of-use: the easier the better. Second is price, and third probably image quality (doesn't need to be perfect - don't quite know how much the microscope will get used yet. Can always invest in better quality equipment later on). He doesn't have a camera yet, but will happily buy whatever camera's required.

I have found https://www.lmscope.com/en/lmscope_out2 ... mit=Search, for instance, but €895's a bit more than we'd be looking to shell out simply for an adapter (the full frame adapter's even more expensive at €1085).

Thanks ever so much for any advice!

[Ichthyophthirius]

Hi,

With a Leitz trinocular head already at hand, adapting a camera is relatively easy (compared to other companies). Looks a bit like this but with a tube adapter for Leitz microscopes: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?p=99265

You will need, however, a few original Leitz microscope parts. It will take a couple of weeks to get everything together through Ebay!

I can post some images of the parts you need, but first I need more information:

- Pictures of microscope
- Microscope model, what objectives, do you have any additional eyepieces?
- Purpose of the photography, how often do you need to take pictures?
- Do you need to take pictures while you do microscopy (remote trigger) or can you watch a camera display or computer screen for the photography?
- Do you have any cameras already that you could use; if not, what is your budget?

Finally, have you tried to just point a smartphone camera at the eyepiece? This is a very quick way of taking images. http://www.microbehunter.com/wp/wp-cont ... hone_1.jpg

Regards, Ichty

[3phemeral]

Hi,

With a Leitz trinocular head already at hand, adapting a camera is relatively easy (compared to other companies). Looks a bit like this but with a tube adapter for Leitz microscopes: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?p=99265

You will need, however, a few original Leitz microscope parts. It will take a couple of weeks to get everything together through Ebay!

I can post some images of the parts you need, but first I need more information:

...

Hi!
Thanks so much for getting back to me - I'm away at the moment and it took me a little while to get the needed info. I hope getting the parts won't be too hard - would need them shipped to Belgium. Requested info:

- Pictures of microscope
Attached

- Microscope model, what objectives, do you have any additional eyepieces?
Microscope is a Leitz Diaplan. Objectives are 2,5x, 10x, 25x, 40x & 100x magnification. Most used (almost exclusively) are the 10x & 40x magnification.

- Purpose of the photography, how often do you need to take pictures?
Medical archival & case study purpose. To be used ~1x per week, perhaps more over time.

- Do you need to take pictures while you do microscopy (remote trigger) or can you watch a camera display or computer screen for the photography?
Either - whichever is easier. I'm guessing camera display.

- Do you have any cameras already that you could use; if not, what is your budget?
Don't have one, tho could get an APS-C sensor Canon body very easily. I'm not too worried about the camera: I'd look to buy a second hand one (most likely), whichever brand is easy to use. I've got a full frame Canon, but wouldn't go for such an expensive option for him.

Finally, have you tried to just point a smartphone camera at the eyepiece? This is a very quick way of taking images. http://www.microbehunter.com/wp/wp-cont ... hone_1.jpg

Many thanks for the suggestion - I'll suggest this, but think he's looking for something with a bit better quality (tho I'll insist he try it out!)


Pictures (not pictured is the Leitz Trinocular Head). Let me know if you need more/better pictures:

[Ichthyophthirius]

Hi,

Thank you for the information.

I would recommend removing the discussion bridge and mounting the trinocular head directly onto the Diaplan stand.

I use a Canon APS-C camera adapted to a Leitz Periplan eyepiece and I would recommend the same setup for you. The quality is very good and the costs are moderate (though it isn't cheap).

You would need:

1) Leitz photo tube for 160 mm tube length and 23.2 mm eyepiece
(there are several different ones)

2) Leitz Periplan 10x/18 "glasses" eyepiece "519 748" (there are other options but this is the cheapest)

3) Step-down ring between Periplan eyepiece and camera lens

4) A camera lens compatible with Canon, 40 to 50 mm prime lens (40 mm give more coverage), like the Pentax SMC 40/2.8; doesn't matter if it is analog or digital but it has to be dust-free inside

5) Canon 500D, 550D, 600D or 650D (600D and 650D have an articulating screen which is useful)

6) Some kind of support for the camera weight, like a copy stand or a clamp adapter

In the end it will look similar to this: https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... ic=32032.0

Give me a few days and I can post some images of the tube adapters (1) and eyepieces (2).

Regards, Ichty

[Robert Berdan]

Hi - I have written an article on how to take photos with your microscope.
The cheapest adapter is $20, a better one from AM scope with a eyepiece is $100 - both work, the second one for $100 is better and there is no vignetting around the edge. I also describe other setups on Olympus and my Axioscope.

https://www.canadiannaturephotographer. ... _tips.html

You can attach the camera to your laptop using Digicam control software which connects to your Canon or Nikon camera and view and capture images directly on you laptop. The software is free.

There has never been a better or easier time to take photo micrographs if you have any questions let me know - good luck.

[Pau]

The cheapest adapter is $20, a better one from AM scope with a eyepiece is $100 - both work, the second one for $100 is better and there is no vignetting around the edge.

Robert, I've not used the Amscope adapters but I've seen at the forum some not so good results.
As you likely know Leitz objectives do need Periplan compensating eyepieces and the Amscope don't provide such correction, so the image will show lots of lateral chromatic aberrations.
An afocal setup including a Periplan eyepiece like the one shown at the german forum linked by Ichty will be the right way.

BTW, good article and nice studio you have!

[Robert Berdan]

Hi - Ok did not know that you need special eyepieces for the Letiz, I use NFK eyepiecs for Olympus which are flat field corrected and they work well on my Olympus and Nikon scopes. For my Zeiss Axioscope I paid a thousand dollars for a phototube and of course it works well.

The AM scope adapter works well for the money in my tests and I can produce publication quality with it. Chromatic aberration can be corrected in photoshop.

I was under the impression you were looking for an economical method to get started in photomicrography. As such the AM scope adapter works well, if you want pro quality images I would get a trinocular head first, then purchase an adapter for Leica scopes with one of their photo eyepieces if possible.

Some of the AM scope accessories like objectives are quite cheap yet in my opinion very good with flat fields and as good as some of the brand names.
Anyway hope you find something that works for you.

[Ichthyophthirius]

He's got a Leitz Trinocular Head 512 815/20 as well, which I believe should help with the photography (the inside diameter of the head is 38mm, in case that makes a difference).

Hi,

I have taken a photo of the Leitz parts you'll need.

1) a Leitz photo tube
2) Leitz Periplan eyepiece

The tube goes into the top of the trinocular head (38 mm ISO photoport as you mentioned).

There are two versions that are useful for you. Both have a 23.2 mm slot for the eyepiece. One is for 170 mm Leitz optics, the other for 160 mm optics. Both will work on your Diaplan, but only if paired with the correct eyepieces. There are other, similar photo tubes around (for 30 mm eyepieces and for WILD microscopes); they won't be relevant for you.

You need to pair the photo tubes with the correct eyepieces. The 170 mm tube with a Periplan 10x glasses (no field number is written on the eyepiece). The 160 mm tube with Periplan 10x/18 glasses, Periplan 10x/18 "red dot" glasses or Periplan 10x/20 "red dot" glasses (part numbers 519 748, 519 749 and 518 058).




3) All the eyepieces shown above have an M28x0.75 tread on top. This can be used to connect to the camera. What you need is a step down ring, that connects the filter tread of the camera lens to the eyepiece, for example M49-M28 step down: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401535558957

4) The Pentax SMC 40/2.8 is the ideal relay lens. It is very compact and mechanically stable. https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreview ... -Lens.html The difficulty is to find one without dust inside. Can be connected to a Canon camera with a simple ring adapter https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163170886018

The Canon STM 40 mm https://www.canon.co.uk/lenses/ef-40mm-f-2-8-stm-lens/ also works but it's a plastic construction and not very mechanically stable if the camera weight rests on it.


To give you an idea of the likely costs:

1) photo tube: from 30 Euros https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332848546079 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183535560044
2) Periplan: 30 to 100 Euros depending on the model https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292790884911
3) 49-28 mm step ring: 3 Euros
4) Pentax lens: from 50 Euros https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362465209167 plus Canon adapter: 6 Euros


Regards, Ichty

[ChrisR]

I used Google to find Red Dot, which referred me to this relevant post, here:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?p=95721

[Peter M. Macdonald]

Another way to adapt a Leitz microscope to a camera would be to get hold of a Leitz microscope adaptor. These come up on ebay from time to time and are usually not very expensive - c £100.



This was the way in which Leitz intended for 35 mm film SLRs to attach to their microscopes. They work equally well with DSLRs.

The adaptor is in the white box on the picture. It attaches to the camera with a T2 adaptor. These can be had for a very low price. The nice thing about the Leitz adaptor is that it has inbuilt the necessary compensation for the aberrations which remain after the first image has been formed by the objectives. It is fairy easy to adjust the position of the adaptor in the trinocular port so that the image on the camera sensor is parfocal with the image which you see through the eyepieces.

There is a framing eyepiece on the adaptor - the tube which sticks out to the right in the image above. This has a full frame line built in.

The adaptor seems to have a 10x compensating eyepiece and a reducing lens built into it. It is marked as 0.32:1, which is the perfect ratio for full frame cameras. The image quality will still be almost as good on an APS sensor.

Until I got one of these I struggled to get the image quality out of my Leitz Orthoplan which I knew it was capable of producing. With it, pictures look just like the view through the eyepieces.

[Pau]

Peter, this is a good and straightforward adaptation but IMO only adequate for full frame cameras: 0.32X (*) is too high for APSC, even a bit too high for FF when paired with 10X eyepieces as intended.
I use Leitz objectives and eyepieces (In Zeiss stands) and the original Zeiss 0.25X(*) crops too much in most cases for my taste. I use it mainly with a 6.3X Periplan to have the right 1.6X relay magnification for APSC

(*) 3.2X and 2.5X respectively when paired with 10X Periplan eyepieces

[3phemeral]

Thanks everyone very much for the responses! Still have a few questions… By the sound of it, the simplest option would be the Leitz microscope adaptor combined with an APS-C camera (APS-C to keep costs down) - help in sourcing one would be greatly appreciated!

Ichthyophthirius: thanks so much for the suggestions and taking time to photograph the pieces you’ve got. Regarding the cameras: are the Canon 500D/550D/600D/650D better than any of the more recent Canon APS-C cameras (say 2000D) for photomicroscopy? Just wondering if any Canon APS-C would work well enough (as it would simplify finding a camera)? If possible, I’ll try to go with the Leitz microscope adapter part as that would remove the need for getting a lens, and the whole setup seems simpler.

Peter M. Macdonald: the Leitz microscope adaptor sounds like the simplest - and not very expensive - option. I’ve had a look at eBay just now (including completed listings) and the only one I could find is https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232935501473 - is that the adaptor you’re suggesting? Do you have a part number I could use to search with?

Pau & Peter M. Macdonald: what do the 0.32:1 ratios refer to? Does this mean the adapter isn’t suitable at all for APS-C cameras or that it simply crops part of the image?

[Ichthyophthirius]

Regarding the cameras: are the Canon 500D/550D/600D/650D better than any of the more recent Canon APS-C cameras (say 2000D) for photomicroscopy? Just wondering if any Canon APS-C would work well enough (as it would simplify finding a camera)? If possible, I’ll try to go with the Leitz microscope adapter part as that would remove the need for getting a lens, and the whole setup seems simpler.

Hi,

All the APS-C cameras are suitable in principle but a few of the newer Canon cameras had vibration problems (very subtle vibration problems that were only found after thorough testing).

I haven't seen any tests of the newest basic APS-C cameras yet. 500D/550D/600D/650D were tested and found vibration-free from the LiveView setting.

Regards, Ichty

[Pau]

Pau & Peter M. Macdonald: what do the 0.32:1 ratios refer to? Does this mean the adapter isn’t suitable at all for APS-C cameras or that it simply crops part of the image?

0.32X is the secondary magnification provided by the relay lens inside the Leitz adapter.
Because it is meant to work following the afocal principle if you use it with a 10X Periplan eyepiece you will get 3.2X total secondary magnification, this is twice the ideal secondary magnification with APSC sensors on a classic microscope, so the image will be severely cropped, half in linear dimensions, 1/4 in surface. With more magnification you easily get into empty magnification territory, in special with high magnification objectives

More info:
http://www.krebsmicro.com/
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15607

The camera will work for sure

[Peter M. Macdonald]

That is the adaptor which I have. It looks as though it has lived a bit. May be as well to make sure that you can return it in the event that the optics are as beaten up as the paint.

You will see in the first of the six pictures on ebay that there is a spherical knob on a small slider. This seems to adjust something inside which affects the parfocality with the normal eyepieces. After a little fiddling about, I used a small piece of a wooden toothpick to hold the slider where the image was best. It has been there for several years now, and no further adjustment has been needed. It would be nice to know exactly what the slider does, but I have never seen a set of instructions for one of these on the internet.

The circular hole in the third picture is for the insertion of the microscope probe which could be bought as an accessory for the Gossen Lunasix light meter. How things have moved on since this was designed.

As for the 0.32:1 marking, that refers to the reducer lens in the adaptor. This works in conjunction with the photo eyepiece in the adaptor. It enables you to get a similar field of view through a full frame camera to the largest 3 by 2 rectangle which you could fit into the view which you see through the eyepieces. For APS it will be somewhat over magnified, but the image quality should still be good. I have used mine with both a full frame camera and an old EOS 1D III, which has a sensor which gives a 1.3 magnification effect as opposed to the Canon APS C which gives 1.6. Apart from the higher pixel count on the full frame camera, there is little if any difference between the two.

Have seen these go for a fair bit less on ebay, but as I have one, it is not something which I have looked for in a long time. What are sold prices these looking like?