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Shutter vibration Olympus E-M1 vs E-M5 Mark II

 
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Shutter vibration Olympus E-M1 vs E-M5 Mark II Reply with quote

Please kindly comment, if you have compared the shutter vibration between Olympus OM-D E-M1 vs E-M5 Mark II. Thank you very much.

They both have electronic shutter. But I read that some electronic shutters are not truly motionless.

I need to connect the new camera directly to microscope and shoot live water mount protists at high magnification/NA, under continuous light. My current micro 4/3 camera E-PM2 produce a huge amount of shutter vibration (simply isolating the camera on a monopod produced significantly better diatom dotting with Frustulia rhomboides).

I would buy the one with less shutter vibration, if there is a significant difference.

If both are truly motionless, I would probably go with E-M5 Mark II. Mainly because it offers better video capacity (~77 mbps vs ~24 mbps*), tethering and selfie LCD and high res mode (for family).

Edit: I have read almost all posts about E-M5 II on the forum and can see that it has full electronic shutter that is pretty much motionless. Have not got around to read on E-M1, though it can be confusing, since it acquired many functions through firmware upgrade (which provided functionalities that had not existed previously).

* Not sure if that video mbps rate difference really matters though.
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enricosavazzi



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By definition, an electronic-only shutter has no moving parts. If anything is moving, the shutter is not just electronic, but in some way hybrid electro-mechanical. The so-called mechanical shutter in modern digital cameras is always electromechanical, strictly speaking.

However, the E-M1 and E-M1 Mark II (and probably other cameras as well, including Olympus models) emit a sound during the exposure, with either mechanic or electronic shutter. The sound is a kind of continuous high-pitched hiss during the whole exposure, that can be clearly heard in a relatively quiet environment.

This sound has nothing to do with either type of shutter, and I believe it is caused by the image stabilization electromechanics used for motion compensation and sensor shifting. If I remember correctly, this sound was reduced by a firmware upgrade on the E-M1 (or perhaps the E-M5?), but never completely eliminated. On the E-M1 Mark II, it is clearly audible.

The sound may be a consequence of the fact that the electromagnets moving the sensor must be powered in order to suspend the sensor in the proper position during exposure. Without powering, the sensor would just fall to the bottom of its movement range under the effect of gravity, so the system must always be powered on during the exposure, regardless of whether IS is needed. This would explain why switching IS off does not change the sound.

I don't know exactly why a noise is produced. Maybe the servo sensors cause a positive feedback loop, or a resonance, that cannot be completely eliminated even when the goal is to keep the sensor immobile.
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zzffnn



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Enrico.

I won't worry about the sound, as long as it does not cause significant vibration.

Do you happen to remember if your E-M1 can produce 40mb high res photo on tripod, or do tethering, after firmware update?

Do you think the extra video Mbps provided by E-M5 Mark II matters, compared to E-M1 Mark I?

Thank you again!
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My PEN F is completely silent.
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enricosavazzi



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am recalling the following from memory but you should verify this before basing any decisions on it. The E-M1 (Mark 1) has no high-resolution mode based on sensor shifting. It cannot be introduced with firmware upgrades because the IS hardware is not compatible with shifts of a fraction of a pixel.

Tethering with the E-M1 is no problem, either through WiFi or USB. I have used an Android phone for tethering as well, but transferring the pictures to the phone is slow.

I have not followed the E-M5 Mark X and E-M10 Mark X evolution because I now use only the E-M1 series, almost always the E-M1 Mark II. My E-M1 Mark I is now only a second camera when I need to shoot simultaneously with two different lenses in the field.
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zzffnn



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enricosavazzi wrote:
I am recalling the following from memory but you should verify this before basing any decisions on it. The E-M1 (Mark 1) has no high-resolution mode based on sensor shifting. It cannot be introduced with firmware upgrades because the IS hardware is not compatible with shifts of a fraction of a pixel.


Thank you very much, Enrico.

I remember reading that from online as well. Was just wondering if firmware update changes that (did not know that is a hardware limitation, but E-M1 Mark It's sensor is different than E-M5 Mark II or E-M10 Mark II for sure). No worries, I am heavily leaning towards E-M5 II anyway.
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jojm



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use both EM-1 and EM-5 Mk II.
Yes, indeed, no HR with the EM-1.
Another difference which really bothers me is about shutter speed when you shoot with silent mode on EM-1. The lower speed is 1/8 s and it is sometimes really too fast for my continuous lighting. With the EM-5 Mk II, you could choose a speed as long as 25" but with a speed longer than 2" the shutter is not totally electronic.
Other point about using these cameras with Olympus flashes like STF-8, the focus bracketing is OK for both but for a single-frame shooting, you couldn't use silent mode with the EM-1, but it is OK with the EM-5 Mk II.
Let me know if you want more tests.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much, Jean-Marc.

The two differences you found are important to me. I image minerals too, so I understand. Your images on Mindat are very beautiful, by the way!

Regarding the flash sync difference, I wonder if the same applies to 3rd party (non Olympus) flashes? Lou Jost told me this:

"In ordinary photography, it (E-M5 Mark II) does not have flash with fully silent shutter, but there may be a way to make it work using focus bracketing. I will check in a few days......"

Maybe Lou used non- Olympus flash and that was why he could not use flash with silent shutter?

I also wonder when you do use E-M5 Mark II focus bracketing with flash, do you have to set a time delay between each step for flash to recharge? Or is it TTL flash that maybe specific to Olympus?
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used Olympus flash. It is a well-documented feature of the OM 5II that the silent shutter can't be used with flash (unless there has been a recent software upgrade I am not aware of).

In all the Oly cameras with focus bracketing, you can set the delay between shots for recharging the flash. But you don't have to set this if you use Oly flashes; the camera knows when these are fully charged and it fires when the charge is full. I wouldn't trust that if I were you, though, since most tests show that there is less variability in flash output if you let them charge longer.
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jojm



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
... It is a well-documented feature of the OM 5II that the silent shutter can't be used with flash (unless there has been a recent software upgrade I am not aware of).

Yes as Lou, I often read this but with third-party flashes, if you use them with the central contact of the hot shoe (with a trigger or with cable), it works ! In this case, you have to use your flash manually.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:

... I wouldn't trust that if I were you, though, since most tests show that there is less variability in flash output if you let them charge longer.

Yes, Lou is right. I experienced that, especially when you reach the end of your batteries maximum power. As I use a low power on my flashes, a delay of 1s is enough for me both with silent mode and HR mode.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I should have qualified my previous statement; the documentation only applies to Oly flashes not being compatible with that camera.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much, Lou and Jean-Marc. You are both very helpful and kind.

I do have a few third party (hot shoe) wireless flashes; it is good to know that they would likely work with M5II.

Manual setting is fine, as on microscope darkfield mode, my Oly camera metering was never accurate.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jojm wrote:
Lou Jost wrote:
... It is a well-documented feature of the OM 5II that the silent shutter can't be used with flash (unless there has been a recent software upgrade I am not aware of).

Yes as Lou, I often read this but with third-party flashes, if you use them with the central contact of the hot shoe (with a trigger or with cable), it works ! In this case, you have to use your flash manually.


I have an E-M10 Mark II now and can confirm what Jean-Marc said.
My 3rd party non-m4/3 flash works with electronic shutter / silent mode, as long as flash is set manually and shutter speed does not go over 1/25 (I saw a dark band caused by slow sensor readout, when shutter is faster).

The electronic shutter (silent mode) of E-M10 II is truly motionless too, I have tested it on microscope with high NA immersion objectives and diatom dots.

In-camera focus bracketing also works beautifully with Raynox 150/250 snapped onto auto m4/3 tele lens, such as Olympus 40-150mm and Panasonic 100-300mm.
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