D3 radiolaria

Every 30 days the site administrators will pick an image made through a microscope from the "Photography Through the Microscope Gallery" to be featured on the front page of the www.amateurmicrography.net website.

Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau

Wim van Egmond
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:28 am
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs, the Netherlands
Contact:

D3 radiolaria

Post by Wim van Egmond »

No, not 3D. This weekend I could borrow a Nikon D3 from my camera-shop. I made some test images. I always had the idea that full frame would work better for the eyepieces I use. These are designed for full frame. But it could also be that I am not precise enough in the adjustment of the microscope. Wether this is true or not, the results were better than I could achieve before. Not a lot better, but better. I had expected the camera to be a bit more accurate but that is probably due to excessive pixel peeping and enhancing the contrast to its limits. :)

The trouble is that these cameras are so expensive. Luckily we microscopists don't need more than 12 megapixels. And that 's only in the most optimal conditions. For most subjects less MP will be enough. So this type of camera will be good enough for years to come. The microscope's optics will be the limiting factor. I think what we need is a very good sensor with a wide and even tone scale. That is what I need anyway, because my DIC set up is not that good and I have to enhance the contrast in order to get a good image. When you enhance the contrast you can get bending in those faint gradients in the background. This image of radiolaria had a faint bending but that as mainly because of the stacking, some of the images were a bit darker. I added a transparent layer with a colour to remove this bending. So this is perhaps not the best example to show what the camera can do. It is also enhanced, sharpened etc. But I could post some more informative pictures later.

I think the larger pixels in the sensor of this camera can be an advantage. When I use a smaller sensor camera I often got colour shifts, I think it has to do with the small sensor, but I am not sure.

I have never tried a Canon so I can't compare. And I must say that I am not the most technical person that has ever sat behind a microscope. :)

More later, I have to rob a bank now! :)

Wim

Image
Last edited by Wim van Egmond on Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

rjlittlefield
Site Admin
Posts: 23626
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
Contact:

Post by rjlittlefield »

WOW! :D

At only 800 pixels in this web-sized image, I doubt very much that anyone could tell what type camera made it. But I'm happy to take your word that the D3 is better.

What I'm going "WOW!" about is just the beauty and cleanliness of the image. Yeah, OK, some of that is from post-processing. But I could not possibly care less.

Beautifully simple. Simply beautiful. Thanks for sharing! :D

--Rik

Ken Ramos
Posts: 7208
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:12 pm
Location: lat=35.4005&lon=-81.9841

Post by Ken Ramos »

These are really beautiful Wim. Like pieces of fine jewelry. :-k

piotr
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Post by piotr »

That is a spectacular image, Wim. Sharp, clear, and beautifully composed. Did you arrange the radiolaria by hand? Did you use a 25x objective here?

I haven't got any nice results with radiolaria and DIC yet, but I keep trying. Extended dynamic ranges seems to help, indeed.

Charles Krebs
Posts: 5865
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:02 pm
Location: Issaquah, WA USA
Contact:

Post by Charles Krebs »

Wim,

As my kids say when they see something they like... Sweeeet!
I added a transparent layer with a colour to remove this bending
We call it "banding" or "posterization", but whatever you call it, I find it tough to get rid of when it occurs! I encounter it more often than I would like. As you mentioned, stacks where there may be a slight exposure difference in the background are prone to show it more quickly. It's one reason I try to work in 16 bit color now.

If you don't mind, could you briefly explain the steps you use to add "a transparent layer with a colour"?

There are a million PS plug-ins out there, but I don't use very many. However there is one that I do use from time to time has been helpful in dealing with this issue when I work from 8 bit jpgs. It is called "Histogram Repair".
http://www.powerretouche.com/Histogram_ ... torial.htm

If I have an 8 bit image that I know needs come considerable contrast adjustments I'll "convert it" to 16 bit and run this plug-in. It can make a big difference sometimes.

Charlie

Wim van Egmond
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:28 am
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs, the Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Wim van Egmond »

Thank you!

Rik, To my opinion the D3 is better than what I tried before but it may well be that others have a different opinion and the difference lies in small details, and it is also a matter of postprocessing. I have never tried a Canon and I am curious if they have a cleaner image than Nikon. When you have a very clean grainless image it is much easier to sharpen! Therefor I would be curious about the differences between different cameras. But perhaps this is not the place to go into a technical discussion.

Piotr, it was done with a 16X achromat. it is from a mounted Radiolaria slide I made some years ago and they are arranged just like this with a composition that is made especially to create a good composition for a picture. I have a steady hand :) and always breath upwards while manipulating radiolaria. I use a cat's whisker for picking up the radiolaria.

Charlie, I should try that plug in! Thanks! I often turn 8 bits into 16 bits when operating with extensive curves or levels but this may help! Aha, it is 'Banding' of course. Sorry for 'bending' your language! :) :)

Yes, in this case I had some banding. But with stacks I always make an image of the background without the subject (I also do this with insect stacks) This way you can use that background image to retouch halos and other artefacts.

And when there is still banding I place a layer on top of it. I pick the main colour of the background, You can even use a gradient picking the top colour and bottom colour. I used that as an extra in this case. But I make that layer 30% so it still has an uneven shape of gradient. Otherwise it would look unnatural. The actual image looked almost like this. Than I put a grain of 3 to that colour layer, than I fade it to 10 or 15 percent depends on teh grain that is already in the image. Than I put a blur to that layer and I fade that blur to 40 or 50 percent. And than with an opacity mask you can make the subjects appear again.

But I try to avoid having to use these tricks. In many cases I have to do little to improve the images, it is a matter of good preparation of the slides. But with stacking you always need some manipulations, or don't you Charlie???? :)

So I think with all our manipulations we may make each other crazy and give the impression that we have a solution for immediately brilliant results! :) So it is important to emphasize that we all use adjustments and sharpening. A disturbed image can always be made nice on a 800 pixels size. But we also like to have our images look o.k. at full resolution. that is what I like because I often print my images large for exhibitions.

For me the D3 could be a solution. I have not done much microscopy this year, ot just becasue of other projects, but also because I wasn't pleased with my results. I always had the idea that full frame would be better, but it is probably simply only easier. I am curious if Charlie has something to say about the image quailty between Nikon and Canon, or if he has tried a full frame. The only think I can say is that I am not a very systematic person and because of that not the most reliable person for testing and comparing.

One of my new years resolutions is to improve my work flow and my microscope set up. I still stand on a chair in order to take photomicrographs. Can you believe that? I also want to connect a computer to my camera. I now have to drive to my studio to work on the pictures. It is all very inconvenient and silly.

But hey, I did put an Avatar in my postings. It took some time because nobody ever takes a picture of me. :) This was done by my girlfriend with a telephone.

Sorry for the idiotic long read. But since nobody takes their bicycle and come over to have a drink with me in the pub I have to write it all down:)

Wim

Charles Krebs
Posts: 5865
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:02 pm
Location: Issaquah, WA USA
Contact:

Post by Charles Krebs »

Wim,
I often turn 8 bits into 16 bits when operating with extensive curves or levels but this may help!
Then I think you may find this plug-in useful. When you simply change the "mode" to 16 bits in PS, you now have a 16 bit "container", but it still only contains the 8 bit data you had originally. Then, when you run this plug-in it "interpolates" from this existing data and fills in what is missing in the 16 bit "container". Not the same as working in 16 bits from the very beginning, but it can be very helpful.

I had a friend trying to set up a Nikon D200 and he was having difficulties. So I did do a comparison between my Canon Rebel 350D (8 MP) and the Nikon D200. I could see nearly no difference. Both looked very good. A while back I also did a much briefer comparison with my full frame Canon 5D. (I used a 1.67X photoeyepiece with the smaller framed 350D, and a 2.5X photoeyepiece with the Canon 5D. Much less difference than I expected when used on a microscope. I think if I would have done the comparison with more images the full frame might have showed an advantage.

Wim van Egmond
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:28 am
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs, the Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Wim van Egmond »

Thanks for the feedback, Charlie. Yes, a lower magnifciation eye piece should do the trick for the smaller sensors! :)

Wim

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic