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Connecting Olympus BH-2 microscope and E-3 DSLR
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:45 pm    Post subject: Connecting Olympus BH-2 microscope and E-3 DSLR Reply with quote

I now have an Olympus BH-2 microscope. I also have an Olympus E-3 DSLR camera. I would like to connect the 2. I have a trinocular head for the scope. From what I can gather I also need to following parts:
- 1.6X Standard Mount Adapter for Olympus E-3 covering up to a 30mm diagonal camera chip
- H-Clamp FOR BH-2
- Olympus 4/3 Macro adapter for E-3 DSLR

Is this correct in that it is all that I will need?

I have several boxes of equipment that may have these very parts, but I don't know what they look like. Does anyone know where I can find photos of these parts?
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Connecting Olympus BH-2 microscope and E-3 DSLR Reply with quote

allelopath wrote:

- 1.6X Standard Mount Adapter for Olympus E-3 covering up to a 30mm diagonal camera chip
- H-Clamp FOR BH-2
- Olympus 4/3 Macro adapter for E-3 DSLR


Hi, What's the source of your information? I'm not sure it'll work but it would help to know the source.

My understanding is that if you use your BH-2 with Olympus 160mm objectives, you need an Olympus compensating optic in front of your camera. This can be either an NFK projective http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/digital-slr-bh2-microscope.html or a normal WK eyepiece (afocal method).

Since your camera has a 4/3 sensor (only 22.5 mm diagonale), your relay optic magnification needs to match whatever compensating optic you decide to use.

Ichthy
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a couple parts (that go together) here:
http://imgur.com/a/K6ly1

Can I use these as part of the connection to the E-3?

As it is, it connects another, quite old, camera. If this part cannot connect the E-3, is there a newer camera that it could?

The one piece says:
diagnostic instruments
0.6x
HPR060-CMT
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Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4826
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The linked parts are to couple a C mount small sensor camera as shown. With a 0.6X factor the image circle will be very small to fill your sensor, the total relay magnification for 4/3 will be at least 1X, more sure 1.2 -1.3X.
I you can't find the Olympus parts and in special the rare and expensive 1.6X photoeyepiece you can couple a 10X viewing eyepiece an a 25-30mm camera lens, what we call afocal setup

Take a look:
http://savazzi.net/photography/zeissadapter.html

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99265#99265
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:
I you can't find the Olympus parts and in special the rare and expensive 1.6X photoeyepiece you can couple a 10X viewing eyepiece an a 25-30mm camera lens.


That would be nice, however, there might be problems fitting the quite bulky Olympus WK 10x eyepiece into the narrow trinocular phototube (which was built for sliding in narrow NFK projectives). www.ebay.com/itm/161404179005

If the 10x eyepiece fits, it's great (can't test this as I don't have a BH-2).

If it doesn't, it might be possible to use an NFK 5x with a 30mm camera objective as you said (NFK 5x works as a 10x eyepiece) - there should be a bit of distance between the NFK and the objective to match up the exit pupils.

Ichthy
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would I be better off forgetting about the E-3 and getting a microscope camera (like something here http://www.microscope.com/optixcam-summit-sk2-14x-14-0mp-pc-mac-compatible-digital-microscope-camera-1.html?category=212)?

What other parts would I need to connect this camera to the BH-2?
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I don't think I have any usefull advice beyond trying either the NFK 5x + camera objective option or afocal with 10x eyepiece. Have you now tried if the 10x eyepiece fits into the phototube??

I really only wanted to remark that you need an Olympus eyepiece optic (NFK or WK) for taking photographs. I don't know if anybody has tested how well the "Diagnostic Instruments" adapter imitates the Olympus original optics.

Maybe the question is: "What camera would you recommend to use on a BH-2 trinocular head?"

- assuming that the NFK 1.67x projective is too expensive for you?
- assuming you don't want to buy a Canon full frame DSLR?
- assuming you want a camera with a vibration-free shutter?
- do you want to control your camera from a computer?

There are not so many options.

- your Olympus E-3 is not vibration-free?
- vibration-free APS-C cameras (some Sony, some Olympus) are best with the NFK 1.67x http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/digital-slr-bh2-microscope.html
- c-mount camera might be an option if your 0.6x Diagnostic Instruments adapter is good

On this site http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/c-mount-video-bh2-microscope.html it lists that an 0.63x adapter is suitable for a 2/3" sensor (larger than the OptixCam you linked).

The C-mount camera quality is hit-and-miss. A good, branded c-mount camera that approaches the image quality of a Canon or Sony APS-C camera will be expensive!

Sorry that I couldn't be of more help. The BH-2 appears to be hard to adapt. No wonder prices for the NFK 1.67x are so high.

Ichthy
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Alan Wood



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 300
Location: Near London, U.K.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allelopath wrote:
Would I be better off forgetting about the E-3 and getting a microscope camera (like something here http://www.microscope.com/optixcam-summit-sk2-14x-14-0mp-pc-mac-compatible-digital-microscope-camera-1.html?category=212)?

What other parts would I need to connect this camera to the BH-2?


I have a page on this topic:

http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/c-mount-video-bh2-microscope.html

I suspect that the sensor in the OptixCam video camera has a sensor smaller than the 11mm diagonal that would match the expensive NFK 1.67x photo eyepiece.

The BH-2 works well with full-frame 24x36mm sensors or 1" video sensors if you use the NFK 2.5x eyepiece.

If you can find and afford the NFK 1.67x eyepiece, then it also works well with APS-C sensors and 2/3" video sensors.

There does not seem to be a good way to use the Olympus Photomicro Adapter L or the MTV-3 adapter with cameras that have smaller sensors.

Alan Wood
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The E-3 does have an anti-shock function in which the interval between the mirror flipping up and the shutter opening can be preset from one second to 30 seconds.

I don't require to control the camera from a computer. Just be able save images taken by the camera to a computer. In the case of the E-3, that would be transferring files from the compact flash card to a computer.

I am not interested in video, only still images.

My reason for asking about getting another camera (and not using the E-3) for the microscope is that the E-3 is a 4/3 camera, if I have to spend hundreds of dollars for the equipment to get 4/3 camera which has a small footprint (sorry don't know the terminology), perhaps a should spend the money to get a camera with a large footprint.

I'm in way over my head here and don't understand much of what has been said. The BH-2 just landed in my lap, for which I feel fortunate, but I know nothing about microscopes. I am thankful for the replies.
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allelopath wrote:
The E-3 does have an anti-shock function in which the interval between the mirror flipping up and the shutter opening can be preset from one second to 30 seconds.


Hi, unfortunately that is not enough. The shutter opening generates vibrations as well http://www.krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/

However, I might have found a solution for you that is largely independent of the camera you use.

You should consider mounting the camera to a copy stand like here: http://www.krebsmicro.com/microsetup2/ (you won't need bellows) or attach it to a tripod or to the wall.

You then use the afocal method: The trinocular photo tube needs an Olympus NFK 3.3x or NFK 5x projective (they are not very expensive). The projectives generate a real image that you can record with a camera objective of suitable focal length.

For the calculations see http://www.krebsmicro.com/photomic1/photomic1.pdf

Munit = (FL/250)* (Eyepiece Magnification)

If you use an NFK 3.3x, the eyepiece magn. is 6.6x; cas the camera objective, let's use a simple 50mm prime lens:

Munit = 50/250 * 6.6 = 1.32

FNOS = (format diagonal)/ Munit

Let's use a Canon APS-C sensor camera (28mm diagonale)

FNOS = 28 mm/1.32 = 21.2 mm

Using this combination, you would record a 21.2 mm diagonale of the intermediate image, which is slightly more than you would see through WK 10x/20 eyepieces (you would probbaly get a little bit of vignetting in the corners of the image).


If you want to use your Olympus E-3 (22.5 mm diagonale), a 50 mm lens would cover

FNOS = 22.5 mm/1.32 = 17 mm

which is still decent. By using a prime lens with lower focal length, you will improve the coverage.

Munit = 40/250 * 6.6 = 1.056

FNOS = 22.5 mm/1.056 = 21.3 mm


Although I haven't tried this with Olympus projectives, I have done it with Zeiss and Leitz projectives where it works well. The investments into an NFK 3.3x and a copy stand or tripod are small in comparision with all other options.

For the camera objective, use a prime lens, not a zoom, if you have one. The lens design can be very simple, no macro or fast lenses needed. Flat, panacke designs are great, although the new models with aspherical lenses can show "Coolpix rings".

Ichthy

P.S. If anybody disagrees, please let us know!!!
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 2135
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding exposure vibration, I use a Nikon so don't know if this applies to Canon or Olympus. I use strobes that fire just before the rear curtain closes. The sequence is: move camera/lens, wait, flip mirror, wait, open front curtain wait for programmed exposure time, then fire strobes and close rear curtain. The Nikon is programmed to flip mirror on first shutter command, then open front curtain on second command for a programmed exposure time, then fire strobe and close rear curtain.

I found this scheme to work well with the Mitutoyo 10X objective and Raynox tube lens setup I use on a Nikon D800E sitting on a StackShot focus rail.


Last edited by mawyatt on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:59 pm; edited 3 times in total
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allelopath



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the replies. You guys go above and beyond the call of duty.

I do have a good tripod (Bogen/Manfrotto)

I don't have a prime lens, but rather 2 zoom lenses. One is a Sigma DC 18-50mm 1:2.8 EX Macro. You think it would be better to have a lens with a fixed focal length. Would a lower focal length prime lens like this be best:
http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-M-Zuiko-Silver-Panasonic-Cameras/dp/B00A7Q9U9Y

Fwiw, I also have a Nikon Coolpix s3600 Point & Shoot
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4826
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichthy, I don't understand well your magnification calculations with projective NFKs used afocally.

I'm used to afocal as you know but at the classic way, using visual type eyepieces with the camera lens close to the eyepiece lens, not capturing a real image projected by the eyepiece.

Could you further elaborate it?. Do you have actual experience using NFKs that way? (This seems interesting!)
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allelopath wrote:

I don't have a prime lens, but rather 2 zoom lenses. One is a Sigma DC 18-50mm 1:2.8 EX Macro. You think it would be better to have a lens with a fixed focal length. Would a lower focal length prime lens like this be best:
http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-M-Zuiko-Silver-Panasonic-Cameras/dp/B00A7Q9U9Y


Hi, For the focal length, just follow the calculations in the link I provided.

I would recommend starting conservatively with a 50mm prime lens on the Olympus E-3, capturing around 17mm of the intermediate image.

For the 50 mm, you can use any flat 50 mm prime lens from the digital or analog era for which a mechanical adapter is available for Micro 4/3. You don't use the focus mechanism of the camera, so no real electric connection to the camera is necessary.

I prefer analog era objectives for mechanical robustness. You can get them from $20 on Ebay. http://wycameras.com/shop/pentacon-prakticar-50mm-f2-4-mc/

Ichthy


Last edited by Ichthyophthirius on Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:44 am; edited 3 times in total
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:
Could you further elaborate it?. Do you have actual experience using NFKs that way? (This seems interesting!)


Hi Pau,

The NFK project a real image at a distance of 125 mm.

I have personally used Leitz (Proj.-ok.), Zeiss (Mipro Kpl) and Zeiss Jena (MF) projectives. Leitz and Zeiss project at infinity, MF project at 125 mm.

The Leitz, Zeiss, and Zeiss Jena projectives also work as visual eyepieces, at least the higher magnifications. So I (and many others) use them as low-magnification eyepieces for afocal shooting.

I assume it will work with the NFKs as well (I can't guarantee it, of course). I'd like to know if anyone has tried that and could comment on it ...

I suppose, all you have to do is position the pancake camera objective front lens 1-2 cm above the projective exit pupil (in Zeiss, the exit pupil is at 30 mm). The exact distance you'd have to find out experimentally.

As for the calculations, just multiply the NFK magnification (based on 125 mm) by 2 to get the corresponding magnification at 250 mm (i.e. an NFK 3.3x is the same as a 6.6x visual eyepiece).

Kind regards, Ichthy


Last edited by Ichthyophthirius on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:34 pm; edited 3 times in total
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