Some sugar and onion from total beginner

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:54 am

First of all I want to thank everyone on this forum for all useful information that helped me in last few weeks to dive into fulfilling world of photomicography.
This is my first post so let me introduce myself. My name is Nenad and I live in Zagreb, Croatia.
As this is photo section, forgive me for longer introduction I'll do. You can scroll down to sugar and onion cells if dont want to read my confession :-)

Month ago I started playing with some funny toy scope I received from friend of mine. I taped web camera to its objective and started to play with undemanding samples (paper bills, matchstick head, mobile phone screen, etc.). So I stared reading. And internet is really great place :-) And then I learnt that light microscopy is not so simple field. And my appetite grow and grow and grow some more :-) I decided what type of scope would satisfied it, but it was out of my reach (financially). On eBay there are some used good scopes, but shipping make prices almost double and import tax would add to much to final cost. So I decided to go for something in student rank. I bought nice new Chinese, white label, scope in Croatia for 500 $. Achromat objectives, metal body, adjustable condenser with iris, photo tube, basic stuff. I was happy!
Then, just after week or so, I went without reason to local adds page to see what is selling. No plan to buy anything or even expect. And there it was, waiting for me. Leitz Orthoplan, covered with dust in some basement, fuzzy photos. Price? I feel shame to tell, but it was very low. I knew how much it would cost on eBay without all the equipment I got (ICT condenser, vertical illuminator turret, third unused turret, forth with little rust on it, 11 objectives (including 40X ICT), Variotube, lamphouse 500, rotational stage, etc.)
There is no reason in the world I'm writing this here but to express my excitement and happiness somewhere where there are people who could understand why i'm so excited :-)
Sorry for bothering that much...

So photos. I'm still waiting for DSLR adapter, but could not wait so I took some DCI and POL photos with my web camera.
I would appreciate tips from someone more experienced than I am (that means everyone here :-)

First try with DIC (ICT) - already very dry onion skin:

Some sugar crystals in POL:

and some more sugar trying maximum contrast with max extinction:

Nenad

Cactusdave · Post by **Cactusdave** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:56 am

You are a very lucky man. How many of us have dreamed of such a 'find' in the local small ads.

The Orthoplan is a very fine microscope and Leitz ICT (differential interference contrast) is great. Take some pictures of the microscope and accessories you have and post those and that will help people give tips. From your first picture it looks like you have ICT set up pretty well already

When you come to connect your camera ( I'm assuming you have a trinocular head) you may find this useful http://www.krebsmicro.com/pdf/trinoc_a.pdf

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:35 am

Nenad, wellcome!
From a toy microscope to a DIC Orthoplan...a good improvement!:D Congrats.

The first image relief is really great.

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:00 pm

Cactusdave wrote:You are a very lucky man. How many of us have dreamed of such a 'find' in the local small ads. The Orthoplan is a very fine microscope and Leitz ICT (differential interference contrast) is great. Take some pictures of the microscope and accessories you have and post those and that will help people give tips. From your first picture it looks like you have ICT set up pretty well already When you come to connect your camera ( I'm assuming you have a trinocular head) you may find this useful http://www.krebsmicro.com/pdf/trinoc_a.pdf

First of all, thank you! And yes, I am very happy (first time in my life with buying something so good cheap :-)

Today adapter i bought on eBay came and as soon as I arrived home I went for a test run. I must say I'm little bit disappointed. Photos are not sharp and I'm investigating probable causes.

First, I still dont have proper illumination. Scope came without power supply. HBO (200w) in big lamphouse I dont dare to use because I don't know how many hours was used and other lamphouse with 12v 100w halogen light needs power supply (still collecting parts to build one). For now I have 5w LED (280lm) improvised into 3rd mirrorhouse opening but it has 4 diodes and big square in the middle so I can't get uniform illumination with Koehler setup. I still have some pondering to do about illumination (thinking about metal halide or strong 100w LED...)

Here is diode configuration in that led bulb:

Second, adapter I bought is without optics (really simple 38mm to C-mount to Canon EOS 350D bayonet) and I'm losing some 20-30% of field (but I could live with that). Problem with this combo is that 350D is not mirrorless so I suspect it is main cause of blurriness as image looked through camera veiwfinder is more clear. But I'm not 100% sure because it is unsharp even with 10 seconds exposure. Could someone confirm my doubts or how to test it?

And here is my new best friend (and that toy scope beside :-)

Nenad

Jacek · Post by **Jacek** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Welcome to the forum, nice pictures

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:03 pm

Pau wrote:Nenad, wellcome!
From a toy microscope to a DIC Orthoplan...a good improvement!:D Congrats.

The first image relief is really great.

Thank you Pau! For nice welcome. And for praise on photo.
I still have a lot to learn and practice, but that's the best part! :-)

Nenad

arturoag75 · Post by **arturoag75** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:09 pm

Hi,
wellcome...i'm waiting to see more pics whit your giant scope

arturo

Litonotus · Post by **Litonotus** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:50 pm

what a machine! it looks even bigger when put next to that little toy scope (:

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:51 pm

Jacek wrote:Welcome to the forum, nice pictures

Thank you! :-)

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:53 pm

arturoag75 wrote:Hi,
wellcome...i'm waiting to see more pics whit your giant scope
arturo

You can count on it

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:54 pm

Litonotus wrote:what a machine! it looks even bigger when put aside that little toy scope (:

Yep, a monster in full metal jacket

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:03 pm

Nenad,
Welcome aboard.

. Problem with this combo is that 350D is not mirrorless so I suspect it is main cause of blurriness as image looked through camera viewfinder is more clear. But I'm not 100% sure because it is unsharp even with 10 seconds exposure. Could someone confirm my doubts or how to test it?

Even using the mirror lock-up with the 350D you will have some vibration from the shutter using a microscope mounted camera. But... that issue should totally "disappear" with a 10 second exposure. (With a 10 second exposure you really need to be sure there is no external "environmental" source of vibration that might be causing problems). With mirror lock-up (and a brief pause before taking the shot) you really don't need 10 seconds, the shutter vibration typically damps out quickly, and you should not see any effect with a two second (or longer) exposure.

How are you determining focus in the camera body, looking through the viewfinder? It can be tricky sometimes to get best focus on a microscope this way, especially without some sort of viewfinder magnifier.

How close is the camera focus to "matching" the correct focus as seen through the eyepieces? Do you need to re-focus much to achieve focus in the camera compared to the eyepieces? Is the camera tube adjustable up/down at all?

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:42 pm

Charles Krebs wrote:Nenad,
Welcome aboard.
. Problem with this combo is that 350D is not mirrorless so I suspect it is main cause of blurriness as image looked through camera viewfinder is more clear. But I'm not 100% sure because it is unsharp even with 10 seconds exposure. Could someone confirm my doubts or how to test it?
Even using the mirror lock-up with the 350D you will have some vibration from the shutter using a microscope mounted camera. But... that issue should totally "disappear" with a 10 second exposure. (With a 10 second exposure you really need to be sure there is no external "environmental" source of vibration that might be causing problems). With mirror lock-up (and a brief pause before taking the shot) you really don't need 10 seconds, the shutter vibration typically damps out quickly, and you should not see any effect with a two second (or longer) exposure.

How are you determining focus in the camera body, looking through the viewfinder? It can be tricky sometimes to get best focus on a microscope this way, especially without some sort of viewfinder magnifier.

How close is the camera focus to "matching" the correct focus as seen through the eyepieces? Do you need to re-focus much to achieve focus in the camera compared to the eyepieces? Is the camera tube adjustable up/down at all?

Hi and thanks for welcome and advices!

Yes, I look through camera viewfinder to set a focus as 350D lacks liveview. And true, it is tricky as view is so small.
I also tried taking several photos, adjusting scope focus in fine steps. Resulting, middle, best focused picture is still little blurry.
Camera viewfinder focus needs to be set 1.5 full revolutions of fine coaxial adjustment knob closer to objective to be focused like scope eyepiece.
Yes, I could move camera tube up (it is completely down now).
Following your idea, I tried to move it more upward, but that only made it worse (focus). It looks like I cannot achieve parfocality with this adapter

I am using web camera tied to one eyepiece so can compensate with webcam focus to get almost there (at least for scanning purpose).

After some hour of trying I got to the point where focus i similar to what I get with webcam on eyepiece, but illumination is terrible. I will blame 70% of quality problems on that and rest on lousy camera tube. Soon I'll get better light and then we'll see should I invest in decent adapter, mirrorless camera or both.

Thanks again for ideas what to pay attention to and, of course, if you have some more, I'll be grateful!

Baley · Post by **Baley** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:42 am

Congratulations on a great buy! I've used a 5-led light source and it worked fine because there was a diffusion glass in the light path. You might try that. You can make your own by rubbing some wet rubbing compound over some clear glass until you get the degree of diffusion you need. Looking forward to seeing some more of your pictures.

emsiem · Post by **emsiem** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:59 pm

Baley wrote:Congratulations on a great buy! I've used a 5-led light source and it worked fine because there was a diffusion glass in the light path. You might try that. You can make your own by rubbing some wet rubbing compound over some clear glass until you get the degree of diffusion you need. Looking forward to seeing some more of your pictures.

Thanks! I tried sanding plastic cover of LED lamp and it looked good on bulb, but no effect when it comes to condenser and then objective. I dont have spare filter I would blur. I ordered some high power leds from ebay so I'll try to be patient till then...
I'm trying to look things like this; it can only get improved from this point on :-)

I'll get back with some pics when I make some progress. Till then I'll enjoy photos of others and even more looking through my binocular :-)

One more from webcam from me:

(Orthoplan NPL 40 ICT)

Could someone ID this? It formed in 3 days on slide with some sugar, salt and cotton fibers. Is it funghi or crystals or...?