Is image theft a problem, and how to prevent it?

[Planapo]

Recently, I searched the forums and came across some older threads with contributions of georgedingwall that I remember having read with great interest when I was a novice to the forums.
I now see that George has edited his posts and deleted all of his photos. George doesn´t seem to be around here much lately, to my regret as he showed great photos and wrote very informative and kind contributions. I remember that somewhere among his latest posts he wrote that he´d found some of his pictures had been stolen and showed up elsewhere on the net.

I assume that this image theft could be a reason why he deleted his pictures.

This is the reason for my question whether image theft is a problem and what we can do about it.

--Betty

[Ken Ramos]

I would guess that image theft is a bigger problem than we may realize. Anything you put on the web is up for grabs in an open forum like ours. Though I have read that we do have rights that may or might stand up in a court of law but I personally would not count on it.

[Mike B in OKlahoma]

I can only repeat what I've read in other places where it was discussed, but I've seen (supposedly) wiser heads say that if you don't want it stolen, it's best not to place it on the internet. Certainly I wouldn't place an image larger than 800 pixels (or so) on the largest dimension on the internet. That would make it harder to use the image for anything where the "fair market" payment would be high. Putting the "copyright" symbol and your name is of some use. Some people have embedded a faded version of this over a large area of the photos they post, which is probably harder for a thief to deal with.

An attorney and photographer named Carolyn Wright has a lot of commentary in her blog on photographer legal issues including limits on where photography is allowed, and image theft. It is US-centric and I'm not sure how much would be applicable in Germany, but it may be of interest to you:

http://www.photoattorney.com/

[rjlittlefield]

I assume that this image theft could be a reason why he deleted his pictures.

I checked with George; your assumption is correct. Some of his images were stolen from other forums (not ours). In response, he decided to remove images from forums where he was not active. Due to changes in his personal situation, he is not currently doing photography, so our forum is one of those. (However, George does send his best wishes and urges us to keep up the good work.)

...whether image theft is a problem and what we can do about it.

The second part is easy -- what anyone can do about it is pretty limited.

From a technical standpoint, there simply is no way to prevent theft of any publicly viewable image, at screen resolution. Every computer's built-in "print screen to clipboard" operation sees to that. There are reliable means to detect theft, at least if the stolen images are later posted somewhere, but those means are so expensive they make sense only for commercial photographers.

From a practical standpoint, the best defense is probably to clearly state your intent. Embedding copyright text in the image is a great way to do that. Even if it's easily removed by cropping or cloning, that takes a deliberate act by the perpetrator. Reducing the attractiveness of the target will also help -- for example, don't post any higher resolution than you need to show. Using a large watermark will do both, but also reduces the usefulness of the posted image.

The first part -- whether image theft is a problem -- seems highly variable.

I post hundreds of images, and I'm not aware that any of them has ever been ripped off. If I did discover one reposted without attribution, I would be annoyed by that, but it wouldn't change how I work unless somehow the thief was making money from my image. Then I'd drop everything and try to figure out how he did that! Of course I don't shoot images for profit (so the damage of theft would be only emotional, not financial), and I don't shoot the sort of "pretty pictures" that would be most attractive to thieves in the first place. So for me, image theft is not a problem.

The situation is different in the panorama group that I belong to. There, many of the photographers are professional and many of the images are generally attractive. It's not at all unusual for somebody to post "I just found one of my pictures on somebody else's site. What can I do about this?" The usual answer goes along the lines of "Tell them to take it down. If they don't, then tell their ISP to take it down. If that doesn't work, have your lawyer repeat these steps." It's important to note, however, that lawyers cost money. You have to decide if the gain is worth the cost.

Sorry for the lack of a decisive answer. The whole question is a bit like asking how bad the bugs are biting and how to make them stop.

--Rik

[Danny]

Its all very simple really, if you own the original image, the copyright and ownership is yours. Now thats simple huh.

Then you get nutters from Brazil that say, "We would like to use your images for tee shirts". You reply, "no way thanks". They turn around and say, "well since you don't have a copyright on your images, we are going to download them and use them anyway".

"Ah ha. they are all small sizes, so they won't be much good to you". "They will be just fine because they are only going to be printed on tee shirts...........bye.

So now what. Approach a lawyer in Brazil and supply just an email to him ??

Thats just one story over the years. Tom has a few that make great reading as well. Its spooky.

Just forget it and bite the dust. The only way to protect yourself, is don't post images on the net.

Danny.

[doktorstamp]

Image theft on the net has always been, and is likely to continue to be a problem.

By not posting images, they can´t be stolen, true, but it also negates the point of sites like this where images are the raison d´etre of the site.

Ebay, where this was a particular problem on the philatelic boards, seems to have resolved things and made it much more difficult for images to be stolen or cloned. Effectively some unscrupulous sellers were stealing images and offering the items depicted, pocketing the money and leaving. A few have been caught.

I had images stolen, and used in an article, where the author claimed they were his and virtually copied my article word for word on top of that.

For the most part I can live with my images being downloaded and used for private purposes and not for gain.

Where I provide pictures for websites, largely charitably, I make it clear that the images may not be used for gain, and should they be so then the copyright has to be purchased. In this I have had no problems.

Foretunately amongst my circle of friends are a number of QC´s, one of whom in particular deals with this kind of thing, as well as contract law.

regards

Nigel

[Harold Gough]

On copyright, there is no one answer, the law being different, for example, in the USA from that in the UK. (Regrettably, I don't have details to hand).

Harold

[Danny]

Yes the laws are different Harold, here as well. One thing remains the same, no matter what country you live in. If you took the shot, the copyright is with you, you own it, Very simple. If someone uses it without permission, its breaking copyright law, whether thats in the US, UK, New Zealand, Australia, Germany or China.

The problem comes in being able to do something about it. Don't post it is the only way. Again, thats very simple to understand.

All the best folks.

Danny.

[Harold Gough]

On copyright, there is no one answer, the law being different, for example, in the USA from that in the UK. (Regrettably, I don't have details to hand).

Harold

I just found the quote I wanted, in my posting (October 2007) in another photgraphy forum:

"I found the following on a Yahoo GrouP:

"In the US you have an argument for copyright, however full copyright
protection comes from listing your images with the copyright
office.""

Enjoy!

Harold

[DaveW]

Best way to prevent image theft is to be like me, a rubbish photographer!

DaveW

[Mike B in OKlahoma]

Incidentally, there is a proposed change to the law in the US that would really hurt photographers in our position. It's been discussed extensively on boards oriented towards the business side of photography, and here's an article oriented towards the general public:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10984.html

[Danny]

Look, how rampant and blatant is it ??. Easy..........

Ron and good friend of mine (Rik will know that name and Sue) had at least one image stolen on the internet and posted on another site. This was brought to everyones attention on nature photography forums. Heres one of Ron's shots

http://www.yui-life.com/gallery/v/inpur ... T.jpg.html

and here is the offending site

http://yui-life.com/gallery/index.php?g2_page=1

So whats the story behind this. Ah ha, this guy goes around downloading images and generally the best and posts them on his own site. So, if you are really upset about it, contact his IP, contact his hosting and see what happens. Contact him if you like, I have and I just got threatened to have my images downloaded and put on his site.

So feel free to complain to anyone you like about that site. I know so many of the photographers abused by this guy and yet, we can't do anything about it. Please try

Danny.

[rjlittlefield]

I am fascinated! What is this yui-life person's point? He's not even pretending that the images are his -- many of the images carry copyright notices and even the ones without are essentially attributed in the filenames. And I don't see how he's making money from them, unless he's getting some kickback from advertising and using all the images to draw traffic to his site? I can easily understand the annoyance of having images used without permission, but why is he doing this?

--Rik

[augusthouse]

Contact him if you like, I have and I just got threatened to have my images downloaded and put on his site.

Was that his official response? Classic!

He is attempting to make money from advertising click-throughs. At least the images are presented in a professional way. He doesn't appear to be claiming ownership but neither is he respecting the rights of the owners; but there certainly is a magnificent collection there.

Some of the advertisments I saw were from large companies - Woolworths for example - must be picking up on incoming and displaying advertisements relevant to the visitor's region.

Hit the advertisers; for example, I don't think Woolworths would appreciate being associated with this 'enterprise' ; but then again, who knows......?

Craig

[Danny]

The answer I got to start with was something like this (without trying to find the email), "I am bringing attention to some of the finest nature images out there. Why would anyone object to having their work among some of the best".

Something like that from memory. Ron did contact them and then there was images from E.J. , Greg Downing, Darwin Wigett and quite a few more as well, they all hit the roof too, still the site keeps going and none of the images are his own.

Thats one site , then there are thousands that just do direct linking from blogs.

Tom and I caught one microscopy guy when we first started and what he was doing, was to use direct links back to here and even had the images from the galleries, as a slide show on his site . So he had a free slide show using not only the members images, but also our bandwidth.

Good huh. Now you know why Tom has very strict rules posted for here Strongly worded rules at that. Anyway, that guy's site was shut down in two days. But there ya go. What some people get up to. And theres more...............

Danny.