Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Just bought that first macro lens? Post here to get helpful feedback and answers to any questions you might have.

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ojd01
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Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by ojd01 »

Hello everyone!

As the spring and summer are on there way I am looking into a budget outdoor macro setup. After comparing macro lenses vs enlarger lenses vs objectives vs extension tubes on normal lenses - enlarger lenses (reversed) seems like a good route.

The setup I am considering is: Canon 500D + M42 extension tubes + 40.5mm-42mm step up ring + Nikon EL-Nikkor 50mm F2.8 (N)
(Note: I have from 10mm-150mm worth of M42 extension tubes I can use to adjust the distance from camera sensor to lens)

Does this seem like a good setup? Are there any issues I should be aware of in advance?

Best Regards

Owen :)
Instagram: @ojd_photo

Adalbert
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Owen,
I'm afraid it's not the best setup for outdoor shooting, but for studio shooting definitely.
Please take into account that you will probably need to use stacking.
For this reason, the cameras with fast internal focus bracketing are best.
In the studio you will need a macro rail.
By the way, I use rodagon and el nikkor, but only for studio photography.
Best,
ADi

ojd01
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by ojd01 »

Adalbert wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:00 am
Hello Owen,
I'm afraid it's not the best setup for outdoor shooting, but for studio shooting definitely.
Please take into account that you will probably need to use stacking.
For this reason, the cameras with fast internal focus bracketing are best.
In the studio you will need a macro rail.
By the way, I use rodagon and el nikkor, but only for studio photography.
Best,
ADi
Hey!

Ah that is fair enough! I am looking to probably shoot around 1:1/2:1 at most with this setup for outdoors. The rest I will do in my studio setup anyway.

Already in my studio I have a rail and all the other bits. The outdoor setup was just for the odd occasion, hence why I was looking for something cheap-ish.

Would a cheap macro lens be just as fine? I want to look at the focus bracketing / stacking cameras once my budget allows (being a student at the moment - doesn't make that easy ahaha). I used to have Olympus M43 series when the budget allowed, so I hope I can return to that in the future.

Regards

Owen
Instagram: @ojd_photo

Ichthyophthirius
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Hi,

I used the exact combination, 500D + EL-Nikkor 50/2.8N. Optically, it is very good. You get a lot of useful information on magnification ratios etc. here: http://coinimaging.com/nikon_el50-28n.html The EL-Nikkor is a £50 investment, you can't really go wrong with it.

Personally, I found focussing very challenging. At f5.6 the image in the viewfinder is already quite dark. I often (95% of the time) missed focus on moving objects, handheld. It's much harder than using a reversed lens with an automatic aperture (bright viewfinder and shallow depth of field at f2.8 make focussing much easier) when I got maybe 10-20% in focus.

The Canon EF 24/2.8 and 40/2.8 pancake lenses are good both forward and reversed as I explained here: viewtopic.php?p=271551#p271551 Together they cover the whole range from 0.3x to 2x.
https://petapixel.com/2016/05/16/cheap- ... cake-lens/
https://petapixel.com/2017/09/11/high-m ... o-rig-230/

If you have moving objects, you should already plan your flash setup, as anything above 1:1 reproduction ratio will be very, very difficult without flash.

Good luck, Ichty

ojd01
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by ojd01 »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:09 am
Hi,

I used the exact combination, 500D + EL-Nikkor 50/2.8N. Optically, it is very good. You get a lot of useful information on magnification ratios etc. here: http://coinimaging.com/nikon_el50-28n.html The EL-Nikkor is a £50 investment, you can't really go wrong with it.

Personally, I found focussing very challenging. At f5.6 the image in the viewfinder is already quite dark. I often (95% of the time) missed focus on moving objects, handheld. It's much harder than using a reversed lens with an automatic aperture (bright viewfinder and shallow depth of field at f2.8 make focussing much easier) when I got maybe 10-20% in focus.

The Canon EF 24/2.8 and 40/2.8 pancake lenses are good both forward and reversed as I explained here: viewtopic.php?p=271551#p271551 Together they cover the whole range from 0.3x to 2x.
https://petapixel.com/2016/05/16/cheap- ... cake-lens/
https://petapixel.com/2017/09/11/high-m ... o-rig-230/

If you have moving objects, you should already plan your flash setup, as anything above 1:1 reproduction ratio will be very, very difficult without flash.

Good luck, Ichty
Hey there Ichty,

This is great advice thank you! I was assuming the viewfinder image would be dark, I had this with a similar setup a while ago.

The super macro rig article looks really good! I might consider the Canon 40mm reversed as I have seen many images from the setup! Also I have most of the adapters and tubes so that cuts some cost.

Best Regards

Owen
Instagram: @ojd_photo

Ichthyophthirius
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Hi Owen,

I word of caution: Contrary to what you sometimes read (and what I wrote in the past), you can't use the autofocus when using the EF 40mm/2.8 reversed. Not only could it damage the motor, it can also stall the lens and render it unresponsive. I only got mine to work again but only with a lot of turning it off-and-on again. :roll: Make sure you put the switch on the lens to "MF" when you use it on an automatic reversing adapter. Also remember to get a lens filter (40.5 or 52 mm or similar, depending on the manuafacturer of the reversing adapter) to prevent any particles from getting into the unprotected back of your lens.
Last edited by Ichthyophthirius on Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

ojd01
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by ojd01 »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:31 am
Hi Owen,

I word of caution: Contrary to what you sometimes read (and what I wrote in the past), you can't use the autofocus when using the EF 40mm/2.8 reversed. Not only could it damage the motor, it can also stall the lens and render it unresponsive. I only got mine to work again but only with a lot of turning it off-and-on again. :roll: Make sure you put the switch on the lens to "MF" when you use it on an automatic reversing adapter. Also remember to get a 52mm lens filter to prevent any particles from getting into the unprotected back of your lens.
Hey!

That is very good advice thank you! I normally only use MF at those magnifications anyway, as AF annoys me too much. Thats good to know about the motor though!

A filter does sound like a very good idea :)

Best Regards

Owen
Instagram: @ojd_photo

MarkSturtevant
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by MarkSturtevant »

I don't as yet see why the original set up is not suitable, at least for starters. This is similar to how I started in the hobby.
Here is what reverse lens photography can do: https://www.flickr.com/groups/reverselens/pool/.
Mark Sturtevant
Dept. of Still Waters

ojd01
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by ojd01 »

MarkSturtevant wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:46 am
I don't as yet see why the original set up is not suitable, at least for starters. This is similar to how I started in the hobby.
Here is what reverse lens photography can do: https://www.flickr.com/groups/reverselens/pool/.
Hello!

Very impressive gallery - I enjoyed looking at your nature images :)

Original set up? What do you mean?

Kindest Regards

Owen
Instagram: @ojd_photo

MarkSturtevant
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by MarkSturtevant »

ojd01 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:01 am
MarkSturtevant wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:46 am
I don't as yet see why the original set up is not suitable, at least for starters. This is similar to how I started in the hobby.
Here is what reverse lens photography can do: https://www.flickr.com/groups/reverselens/pool/.
Hello!
Very impressive gallery - I enjoyed looking at your nature images :)
Original set up? What do you mean?
Kindest Regards
Owen
They are not mine. Just a collection of pictures from various people who use set ups like this.

The original set up that you described at the beginning is what i meant.

I should add, though, that although a reversed enlarger lens can be considered, a regular old manual lens might be more suitable for single shots since I think people say that enlarger lenses have a shallower depth of focus. I have never tried an enlarger lens, though.

There are lots of old manual 35- or 50mm Nikkor, Canon, Olympus, Pentax lenses out there with good glass. Reviews are easily found. Here is a site for old Pentax lenses, for example: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/ This is where I researched long ago and from it I decided to get a nice olde 35mm Pentax Super-Takumar f/3.5. Not expensive, but it was good on a reversed mount with extension tubes, and I think it gives better color than my relatively modern EF 50mm Canon lens.

That Pentax lens and many of these other old manual lenses have manual switch on them so you can pre-set the aperture for greater depth of focus, but still compose and focus wide open (so the light is a lot better). Then when ready you push the switch and the aperture snaps to its pre-set position to shoot.
Last edited by MarkSturtevant on Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
Mark Sturtevant
Dept. of Still Waters

ojd01
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by ojd01 »

MarkSturtevant wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:07 am
ojd01 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:01 am
MarkSturtevant wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:46 am
I don't as yet see why the original set up is not suitable, at least for starters. This is similar to how I started in the hobby.
Here is what reverse lens photography can do: https://www.flickr.com/groups/reverselens/pool/.
Hello!
Very impressive gallery - I enjoyed looking at your nature images :)
Original set up? What do you mean?
Kindest Regards
Owen
They are not mine. Just a collection of pictures from various people who use set ups like this.
The original set up described at the beginning is what i meant. A reversed short prime lens, put on extension tubes.
Oh yes I see - never really used Flickr, only to observe.

That is the setup I will use once the Nikon 50mm F2.8N arrives :) I have heard mixed reviews but I guess I will see what's happens!

Owen
Instagram: @ojd_photo

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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by rjlittlefield »

MarkSturtevant wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:07 am
a regular old manual lens might be more suitable for single shots since I think people say that enlarger lenses have a shallower depth of focus.
People who say that are mistaken. DOF depends on the magnification and effective aperture, nothing else about the lens design. To be clear, when I say effective aperture, I mean the angular size of the aperture as seen by the sensor. That's the same measurement that determines exposure time and diffraction blur, so DOF, exposure time, and diffraction blur all track together in the same way for all lenses.

The misconception that DOF varies with type of lens may stem from the fact that "f/8" can actually mean quite different effective apertures on different systems. To get matched results, you may have to set f/8 on one system and f/16 on another. Think of it as a quirk of the labeling, not a property of the optics.

--Rik

MarkSturtevant
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Re: Reversed Enlarger Lens?

Post by MarkSturtevant »

Thank you, Rik, that definitely help clears that up for me!
Mark Sturtevant
Dept. of Still Waters

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