How good are alternatives (clones) to Mitutoyo lenses

[rjlittlefield]

Here is a jpg:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/146967032 ... ed-public/

So, ISO 320 plus noise accumulation from the stacking. To me the noise looks normal.

I am very impressed by how well the image quality holds up, clear into the corners.

I would have no trouble choosing this lens new, over a Mitutoyo 50X used and with lower NA for probably the same price.

--Rik

[lothman]

And I do need a prober test target and will be happy receiving a piece of SI-Waver.

Thank you very much in advance.
Best regards Klavs

I found a diamond file, scratched the waver, broke it into smaller pieces and UV-glued them to a microscope slide. I will ship tomorrow.
When Klavs did some photos then we can see what the 50/0,65 can do on the same waver what I used for testing the 10x and 5x.

[Chris S.]

This 50/0.65 lens is looking interesting, but I wanted to check its price (read it some time ago, but don't remember) and no longer see it offered by this particular vendor. Am I missing something?

Must admit that the noise level still seems large to me, even given ISO 320 and stacking. But having shot my share of dark wing scales, I suspect they are getting recorded on the left--noisy--side of the histogram, particularly when there are also white scales in the frame, limiting exposure choice to avoid clipping highlights. With this subject, I'd probably have to shoot raw, clip the highlights by an amount known from experience to be recoverable, and pull the histogram tails in during raw conversion.

--Chris S.

[Scarodactyl]

This 50/0.65 lens is looking interesting, but I wanted to check its price (read it some time ago, but don't remember) and no longer see it offered by this particular vendor. Am I missing something?

It looks like it's still on the aliexpress link (price there is 1099usd, same as the 'direct' price listed in the email quoted later in the thread).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002296743358.html
I already have a good selection of 50x objectives but it would still be tempting to me (if I could spend that much on an objective anyway). I like my high res 50xes a lot but 1 down to 0.3mm wd is a different world.

[Chris S.]

It looks like it's still on the aliexpress link (price there is 1099usd, same as the 'direct' price listed in the email quoted later in the thread).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002296743358.html

Thanks, Scarodactyl.

When I click that link (as I did quite a few times earlier), I see "Sorry, this item is no longer available!" Lower down on the page, I see a list of objectives that include this one, but without prices.

I did think that Lothar had posted the prices in this thread, but could not find them again. Since you confirmed they exist, I looked again just now. Yes indeed, they are in a post on page five. Guess I'd just missed it when combing back through.

I already have a good selection of 50x objectives but it would still be tempting to me (if I could spend that much on an objective anyway).

I'm not in the market for such a lens at present, either, since I have the Mitutoyo lenses 50x/0.55 and 100x/0.70. I'd love to test one of these "new" lenses, though, against my known-good Mitutoyo's.

Klavs' images are impressive. This said, I'm not willing to trust a lens until it has been compared head-to-head with a known standard under identical conditions. This requires "same photographer," "same rig," "same subject," "same lighting," and "same testing session."

Also, as lenses from any maker can exhibit a lot of sample variation, I wouldn't be able to recommend lenses from a manufacturer until I'd tested quite a number of specimens. One sample is far from enough: A good result probably demonstrates that the design is sound; numerous good results are needed to demonstrate that production is routinely solid.

I'm curious about this objective, but not $1,100 USD worth of curious. If anyone wants to lend me one to test against known benchmarks, let me know.

If this objective does prove--reliably, sample after sample--to be as good as somewhere-between-the-Mitutoyo-50/0.55-and-100/0.70, there should be a feeding frenzy around it. If the quality is there, the price is very appealing.

--Chris S.

[Scarodactyl]

I'm curious about this objective, but not $1,100 USD worth of curious.

I think that sums it up nicely. I'd really love to see a controlled head to head on someone else's dime.

[lothman]

Klavs' images are impressive. This said, I'm not willing to trust a lens until it has been compared head-to-head with a known standard under identical conditions. This requires "same photographer," "same rig," "same subject," "same lighting," and "same testing session."

I sent him a piece of my waver a week ago but it seems he has not entered the forum since then.

I'm curious about this objective, but not $1,100 USD worth of curious. If anyone wants to lend me one to test against known benchmarks, let me know.

If this objective does prove--reliably, sample after sample--to be as good as somewhere-between-the-Mitutoyo-50/0.55-and-100/0.70, there should be a feeding frenzy around it. If the quality is there, the price is very appealing.

--Chris S.

I suggest you ask Jerry for a test sample, I would do my best to convince Jerry that you are an excellent lens benchmarker. Jerry all the time was interested how his lenses do in competition. I have a very good 20x Mitutoyo but no 50x, Chris I hope this is your turn on high mag. - what do you think?

best regards
Lothar

[Chris S.]

I suggest you ask Jerry for a test sample, I would do my best to convince Jerry that you are an excellent lens benchmarker. Jerry all the time was interested how his lenses do in competition. I have a very good 20x Mitutoyo but no 50x, Chris I hope this is your turn on high mag. - what do you think?

Lothar, I like your idea. Will you please send me a PM with Jerry's contact information? And perhaps email Jerry to introduce me and let him know that I'll be contacting him? (Edit to add: I see that Lothar posted Jerry's email on page four of this thread. Ugh--is it the complexity of long threads, or that my brain is going?)

A benefit to my having tested lots of Mitutoyo objectives for forum members is that every one of my Mitutoyo objectives has been compared with other specimens, multiple times. From this, it's clear that each of my Mitutoyo objectives is a solid, "known-good" benchmark.

Jerry's 50x/0.65 is very interesting. So is his 100x/0.80, if he still offers it. Each of these lenses might, based on its specifications, offer increased performance against Mitutoyo objectives.

For the record, I have these Mitutoyo objectives:

2x/0.6
5x/0.14
7.5x/0.21
10x/0.28
20x/0.42
50x/0.55
100x/0.70

--Chris S.

[Klavs]

Thank you very much to Lothar for the wafer, which I received today in very fine condition.
Here is at test with Jerry's 50x/0.65 on A6500 with the raynox M150 and at a stepsize of of 0.85 µm. (maybe it is to large?)
It is stacked in Affinity and there is no editing. (It helps a lot to increase the contrast). There are CA in the corners but I have no experiences testing these kind of objectives and nothing to compare with.

100% crops:
Center

Corners

[lothman]

Thank you very much to Lothar for the wafer, which I received today in very fine condition.
Here is at test with Jerry's 50x/0.65 on A6500 with the raynox M150 and at a stepsize of of 0.85 µm. (maybe it is to large?)
It is stacked in Affinity and there is no editing. (It helps a lot to increase the contrast). There are CA in the corners but I have no experiences testing these kind of objectives and nothing to compare with.

Hello Klavs,
thanks for investing in this lens and letting us participate to your results. Just one thing regarding the CA. I observed odd things with colors on wafers, resolution/sharpness is OK with them. You can rotate the wafer to 45° and check if you see the same colors in the corners at the same side if the structures.

Or you print a rather bright grey on a laser printer and have a look at the tiny toner particles laying on the paper using well diffused light.

I have no experience with 50x in photomacrography so I cannot judge the lens because I have nothing to compare.

regards
Lothar

[Scarodactyl]

Thanks for taking these pictures! It is a bit hard to interpret them finely, though that's a good sign since really bad performnce would probably be easy to interpret. There's definitely some significant CA, but the magnitude is hard to assess. That is one reason I like to leave some dust on a wafer when imaging it, since the white specs and fibers show CA very well (the other reason is I'm lazy).

Weirdly enough I was ordering a head for my stereo microscope last week from Honyu Opto and while I was at it I asked for the pricing on their m plan apo equivalents (they sell ones with the double knurling, which look like motics and eo, though whether they are the original source I don't know). They had a 50x/0.75 listed in the catalogue, and I was assured it was not a typo (even though the stock photo seems to have 50x/0.55 printed on it). The fact that it's listed at 684 dollars (not to mention 11.5mm wd) also makes me wonder about it--are these really more than 0.55, or is there maybe a labelling arms race here?
Edit: turns out the correct price for the 50x/0.75 is 1250.

[Scarodactyl]

Another intriguing wrinkle, an eBay seller (who'd previously offered a generic 100x hr) is offering generic 5x and 10x HRs as well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385220406175
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385220408256
Not affordable but an interesting development. I guess Sigma has had what might be non-mitutoyo HRs, and there have been Chinese NIR/NUV HR 50xes for a while, but this might be new.

[Igor]

Aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002 ... 3e5fZvjNZy
Shop Name: Scientific-Optics-Lab-OEM Factory Store

Email: opticsexpert@hotmail.com
Name: Jerry
Factory name: Nanjing Huapu Optronics Co. LTD
Web: http://www.fluoscope.com/ (although I did not find the new high NA lenses on that homepage)

After 3 weeks, the lens came from this link. I asked the seller to check the lens for defects before sending it. The seller read and did not write anything in response. As a result, such a lens with defects came. Apparently both microcracks and stains on the coating. Wrote to the seller about it. He again read and ignored my message. I had to open a dispute on Aliexpress (((
Be careful when ordering goods from this seller!

Video with lens defects: https://youtu.be/aW3vfWCFidM

[Scarodactyl]

Bummer! How was overall performance? There's a chance it might still be good, not that it makes the other issues acceptable since cracks can grow over time.

[lothman]

I ordered always via email from Jerry. In the video it looks lokes those glares could also come from some fatty residue. Did you try to clean the area?