I want to use my Mitties "properly"

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Beatsy
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I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Beatsy »

I have five Mitties covering 5x to 50x - my little treasures. At any given time, one will be sat in a macro rig in active use (or awaiting it) and the other four just sit on the shelf - busy not "dropping or falling".

On another track, I'm exploring the idea of a Makroscope or similar. A more powerful stereo-like solution that can reach higher resolution (than affordable stereo zooms) with good working distances. For diatom arranging.

Then it suddenly struck me - why not "store" my idle Mitties on the objective turret of a microscope that supports them! In short, use them for what they were designed for and they may come close to the Makroscope performance I want. I see a weak stereo effect in low-power objectives on binocular (not stereo) microscopes and see no reason why I wouldn't see it with low power Mitties too. Stereo vision helps massively with diatom arranging - even when limited. Either way, I'd really like to try it out.

Note: If I do this, I'll still have four Mitties sat idle most of the time, but at least they'll be idle on an instrument that can be walked up to and used on a whim. So even if the idea doesn't pan out for arranging (and I stick with what I have), I'll gain a more powerful "stereo-like" capability that will be very useful anyway - and my Mitties *will* be used more overall.

So my question is: what's the "best" platform I can buy or build for a set of Mitties? "Best" being the usual balance of cost vs performance.

I don't want to pay Mitty prices for the scope as I have other high-ticket items to buy in my near future (Sony Alpha-1 is one I tried to resist, but won't, drool). So I'm more than happy to build a frankenscope if that's possible. It can even be an "optical bench" type setup if necessary - as long as I can position a binocular head ergonomically for extended use. I don't need any photo support for arranging - it's purely a visual and manual processes. If it doesn't pan out for that then I probably would want to fit a camera after all - but assume not for now.

Would love to hear some of your suggestions. Thanks

Chris S.
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Chris S. »

You could do what I'm doing, and integrate a second-hand Mitutoyo microscope head on a stand of your own devising. The only such head I see on American eBay, currently, is item 402642183481 for $2500 USD OBO. This one strikes me as overpriced, particularly as it lacks a focus block. But if you could get it for a decent offer, provision for focusing movement could be improvised.

I'm mounting mine (a Mitutoyo FS-70 head) on a Velmex BiSlide. The BiSlide is easily robust enough to handle such a head, and is particularly well designed for vertical support. Mounting the two isn't straightforward, as the holes in the one are covered by inaccessible parts of the other. But a couple parts milled out of aluminum should provide mounting holes located in coincident, accessible places. I have the patterns designed and ready to go, just have to transfer the drawings to the metal and put in a few hours milling them off. I'd intended to have this ready for spring, but someone asked me to build an atomic absorption spectrophotometer, and somehow that more interesting project diverted me.

But when finished with the Mitutoyo work, I'll have a vertical rig to go along with my horizontal one.These heads usually have eyepieces, so should work fine for your diatom arranging.

--Chris S.

dolmadis
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by dolmadis »

Thanks both for running through this idea. It has been on my list to achieve for some time but a Mitty head is beyond budget.

Are there any other suitable heads that could be salvaged from high end Nikon's from the past accommodating M26 and a good viewing head?

Ready to be shot down.............

Best, John

Beatsy
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Beatsy »

Chris S. wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:30 am
You could do what I'm doing, and integrate a second-hand Mitutoyo microscope head on a stand of your own devising.
<snip>
But when finished with the Mitutoyo work, I'll have a vertical rig to go along with my horizontal one.These heads usually have eyepieces, so should work fine for your diatom arranging.
Thanks Chris, a combo scope and vertical rail is a very attractive idea. But get thee behind me...! :D

The primary requirement is to support long sessions of visual use while assembling arrangements. I want it to be as ergonomic and productive as it can be for that (within budget). Attempting to include a "vertical rail" ability will immediately compromise that mechanically and/or ergonomically (the "platform" where the diatom work happens is heavily customised for the job). Even if I could overcome the physical problems, I'd then be distracted into novel "vertical macro" things instead, with the same compromising effect on my diatom-arranging productivity.

I'm sure others will be interested though, so please don't take that to mean it shouldn't be discussed or anything like that, and please continue. Just trying to stay focused on the goal for my part (for a change)...

Beatsy
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Beatsy »

dolmadis wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:05 am
Thanks both for running through this idea. It has been on my list to achieve for some time but a Mitty head is beyond budget.

Are there any other suitable heads that could be salvaged from high end Nikon's from the past accommodating M26 and a good viewing head?
I can't answer your question, but I'm hoping for an "assemble parts" solution too - though perhaps more mixed parts than you would choose.

For instance, heres a 5x Mitty on a 135mm prime (as used on macro rigs), with a gizmo for turning telephoto lenses into spotting scopes. It's a monocular Mitty microscope! Just needs a mount with focus mech <waves hands vaguely>.
PXL_20210429_132939490.jpg
But is it a case of just coupling (say) a Zeiss binocular head at the right distance - instead of the eyepiece/telescope thingy? How? I don't know and I've yet to find my spare zeiss head to try it...

bralex
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by bralex »

Chris S. wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:30 am
The only such head I see on American eBay, currently, is item 402642183481 for $2500 USD OBO. This one strikes me as overpriced, particularly as it lacks a focus block. But if you could get it for a decent offer, provision for focusing movement could be improvised.
--Chris S.
FWIW, these guys are local and pretty regularly take lowball offers on stuff they've had for a while. Their starting prices are usually pretty optimistic! They also have 2 others, one would be more of a gamble than usual (192884621838) and the other is part of what looks like a wafer inspection system (362602012771) but has a focus block.

Scarodactyl
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Scarodactyl »

I've done this a few times at this point with different arrangements while assembling my current scope.

The Nikon m26 nosepiece thread works fine with some Mitutoyos, on an individual by individual basis as far as I can tell (objective by objective, nosepiece by nosepiece). The spec is extremely close. They'll all thread on at least a few turns, just some will go all the way on and some will stop before that point, which isn't great for parfocality. Still, Nikon stuff is abundant and it is easy to assemble a stand with enough vertical range of motion.

Olympus bh2 era m26 threads are exactly the same spec as Mitutoyos, but it is harder to assemble a stand with enough vertical movement. The BHMJ focus mount is almost ideal but requires a relatively flimsy vertical column of a proprietaryish diameter. They did also make measuring microscopes with more vertical throw which have the opposite problem, heavy and solid as hell, maybe too heavy. I got one of the latter, it is ultra stable and was great for photos but the one major downside is the coarsest vertical adjustment which involves turning a knurled ring on the fluted focus column which I found annoying. That one is currently in my way and going to be up for sale soon, sans head and nosepiece.

Mitutoyo heads are fine too and can sometimes be had cheaper if you really watch eBay like a hawk.

For whatever stand you choose, for the trinocular a Nikon Optiphot era infinity head will give you a nice compatible tube lens that covers aps-c and an erect image like a stereo at a relatively affordable price.

Beatsy
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Beatsy »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:44 am
...
For whatever stand you choose, for the trinocular a Nikon optiphot era infinity head will give you a nice compatible tube lens that covers aps-c and an erect image like a stereo at a relatively affordable price.
I have a Labophot with the trinocular head (210/inf system) but it's staying intact.

Does an "infinity head", take the output of the Mitty objective directly (i.e. it contains a tube lens), or does it take the output of a tube lens (and thus would work with any lens currently used for that purpose - like the one pictured above). Thanks

Edit: thanks for the info on Nikon M26 too - that's useful to know. Despite my "best" scope being a Zeiss ICM405, I've grown to prefer Nikon microscope optics over the years. Always bright, bold and crisp through the eyepieces, whereas (older) Zeiss optics tend to look rather dull and flat in comparison.

lothman
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by lothman »

Beatsy wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:16 am
On another track, I'm exploring the idea of a Makroscope or similar. A more powerful stereo-like solution that can reach higher resolution (than affordable stereo zooms) with good working distances. For diatom arranging.
do you want to have a binocular view with a Mity or a real stereo view with two optical paths (angled) so that your brain can combine this into 3D view?

Beatsy
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Beatsy »

I expect a binocular view.

However, with low power objectives on other binocular systems I often perceive a bit of stereo (e.g. Zeiss inverted and Nikon Labophot EPI system). Features sticking up from the slide helps the sensation. They visually tip over a bit as they are moved from one edge of the FoV to the other - so there's certainly parallax to be seen. Hoping this will happen with Mitties - although I've read they are near-telecentric, which could rain on that particular parade. Even so, the extra resolution while maintaining good working distance would be benefit enough on its own.

Edit: but if I could have a true stereo view (two different paths) though the same objective, I'd be all for it. Not sure that would be possible though - the objectives that allow that have much wider front elements (and bodies) than a Mitty.

Scarodactyl
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Scarodactyl »

Beatsy wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:36 am
Does an "infinity head", take the output of the Mitty objective directly (i.e. it contains a tube lens), or does it take the output of a tube lens (and thus would work with any lens currently used for that purpose - like the one pictured above). Thanks
It contains a tube lens, which seems similar to the itl200 broadly speaking.

Beatsy
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by Beatsy »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:57 am
...
It contains a tube lens, which seems similar to the itl200 broadly speaking.
That's helpful - clear's up what it is I'm looking for (in my mind) and helps identify relevant info when searching. Thanks.

enricosavazzi
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Re: I want to use my Mitties "properly"

Post by enricosavazzi »

Before getting a Mitutoyo FS-60 scope (which has a turret for 4 objectives), I was planning to modify a 5-mounts turret from a large Nikon industrial microscope of unknown type, apparently made for objectives with a coaxial illumination sleeve around the objective optics. The turret itself fits the Mitutoyo M Plan Apos perfectly and the coaxial illumination path can easily be closed, but the associated turret motor and a large electronics board housed in a thick aluminum alloy box integral with the microscope head made it too much work to adapt. The Mitutoyo FS-60 and FS-70 scopes, instead, can be used essentially without modification, except for a stepper motor connected to the fine focus knob for automated focus stacking.

My FS-60 has an integral 200-400 mm zoom tube lens. The zoom action is almost perfectly parfocal, but there is a bit too much diffraction and too little light at the 400 mm setting.
--ES

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