Musou Black Flock Sheet

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joshmacro
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Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by joshmacro »

Hey there. Anyone use this for a black background? Or instead the paint? There was a YouTube video about it. Interested as to how effective it would be for macro work if the material was very close to the subject and a diffused flash was used. The video mainly showed subjects with a good deal of distance from the background and also using ambient light.

https://www.ko-pro.black/flocksheet/

RobertOToole
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by RobertOToole »

FYI Ko-Pro has an amazon store in the US.

If anyone tries the material be sure to update this thread.

Best,

Robert

chris_ma
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by chris_ma »

sure sounds like a promising material.
the loss ob absorption in the infrared region could be a concern with some light sources, but that's probably similar with a lot of velour materials.
the IR version seems to be available only in japan, and is over twice the price.

the fineshut looks interesting too because I wouldn't have to worry about loose fibres falling onto the sensor, but I wonder how it will fare with flat angles and it's rather expensive.

I made a brief comparison with 4 velours recently:
Protostar (which Robert kindly sent me), Thorlabs, Edmund and d-c-fix

protostar was the best by a good margin, will have to dig up the picture.
chris

chris_ma
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by chris_ma »

found the picture, of course I forgot to label things (doh), and there's only three materials, but the dark one is the protostar.
will see that I can make a better version eventually.
Attachments
flocking.jpg
chris

seta666
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by seta666 »

chris_ma wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:17 am
found the picture, of course I forgot to label things (doh), and there's only three materials, but the dark one is the protostar.
will see that I can make a better version eventually.
Is protostar still available?, I read somewhere that it was out of business. I am running out of flocking material and I will soon need to get some more

chris_ma
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by chris_ma »

it's still listed on their website:
https://www.fpi-protostar.com/hitack.htm
https://www.fpi-protostar.com/flockboard.htm

seems hard to get in europe though.
chris

RobertOToole
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by RobertOToole »

Ran across this great example of veiling glare just in the last couple of days testing.

Quick example of 95% flocked vs 100% flocked for people that might not have any experience. This case had me scratching my head for some time since the tube was already flocked. Turns out one of the flocking tubes had slid down on one end exposing a small section of black anodized tube. Later on also had some some issues with the Macro Varon but not as bad as this.

The flocking material here was Hygloss Products Black Velour Paper, which is more of a dark grey and not as black as this product.



_PM-Glare-Qiptiq-Linos-inspec.x-L-105mm-Float-Lens-www-Closeuphotography-com.jpg


Best,

Robert

rjlittlefield
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by rjlittlefield »

I mostly use Doodlebug Beetle Black cardstock, for the reasons described at https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... hp?t=17917 , "Doodlebug cardstock is blacker than Protostar".

That product still seems to be available at Hobby Lobby, https://www.hobbylobby.com/Scrapbook-Pa ... 2/p/100914 .

--Rik

chris_ma
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by chris_ma »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:00 pm
I mostly use Doodlebug Beetle Black cardstock, for the reasons described at https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... hp?t=17917 , "Doodlebug cardstock is blacker than Protostar".
That product still seems to be available at Hobby Lobby, https://www.hobbylobby.com/Scrapbook-Pa ... 2/p/100914 .
and here I thought I've read all the flocking threads...

thanks for the pointer, can't seem to connect to the hobbylobby server, but they have it on scrapbook with very reasonable shipping to germany, so I ordered some sheets
chris

ray_parkhurst
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by ray_parkhurst »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:00 pm
I mostly use Doodlebug Beetle Black cardstock, for the reasons described at https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... hp?t=17917 , "Doodlebug cardstock is blacker than Protostar".

That product still seems to be available at Hobby Lobby, https://www.hobbylobby.com/Scrapbook-Pa ... 2/p/100914 .

--Rik
I remember this Doodlebug thread and trying to buy it years ago but gave up. Indeed it is available now, so I bought some.

I've been using Protostar forever. I like it for two reasons...first, it has sticky back so is good for putting onto surfaces with minimal trouble...and second, it is very durable. I use it as a "disappearing background" for coin photography, where the coin is placed directly on the protostar surface. In this application it provides a nice 0,0,0 background with minimal processing, provided it is kept clean enough. That is probably the bane of any of these materials, as dust and such will quickly destroy the effect. To keep it clean, Protostar will withstand cleaning with packing tape, with minimal fiber loss. I've cleaned some of my backgrounds dozens of times and they are still very black.

I'm hoping the Doodlebug is as durable, but since it's not adhesive-backed, I doubt I'll use it for backgrounds, but more for traditional flocking purposes. That said, my preference is to paint internal reflective surfaces rather than use flocking material, so it may be that non-adhesive material will just sit unused, but still good to have around.

The Musou flock sheet sounds good but their description of its durability and such are not very encouraging. If I end up buying any it would be the IR version since it's better in vis and has no IR cliff, but I will probably wait for someone else to check it out first.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by Scarodactyl »

The doodlebug sheets I got do have an adhesive back.

ray_parkhurst
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by ray_parkhurst »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:49 pm
The doodlebug sheets I got do have an adhesive back.
Are they the same ones sold by Hobby Lobby? There is no indication (that I can find) that the sheets linked by Rik have adhesive backing.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by Scarodactyl »

I ordered mine a couple years back and I'm afraid I don't remember where I got it from.

ray_parkhurst
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by ray_parkhurst »

I received my Doodlebug Beetle Black sheets today and did some quick tests for use as a background. I also shot one of my Protostar backgrounds. I white balanced off the regular multitone true grey reference I usually use.

I shot both the Beetle Black and Protostar at 2sec exposure using a partial ringlight that is my standard lighting for coins, so the relative "reflectivity" shows in the overall brightness.

What I'm seeing is that the general colors of both materials is about the same, and close to grey. However, the Beetle Black has many multicolor fibers, where the Protostar seems to only have grey toned fibers. Looking at the highest brightness fibers, I don't see much difference between the two, with both having quite a few.

Based on the earlier post from Rik, I don't think either of these materials is the same as it was back then. It appears the Protostar has improved in that it is much "blacker", while the Beetle Black has degraded and is much "greyer".

edited to add: the Protostar is for sure a bit more blue overall than the Beetle Black.

Here are 100% crops of the ref, the Beetle Black, and the Protostar:
WBRef_1.JPG
BBHi2sec_1.JPG
ProtoHi2sec_1.JPG

rjlittlefield
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Re: Musou Black Flock Sheet

Post by rjlittlefield »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:40 pm
Based on the earlier post from Rik, I don't think either of these materials is the same as it was back then.
That's easy to believe, especially given the 8+ years since my test.

Your shots appear to be perpendicular to the sheet.

What happens if you test for reflection at shallow angles, typical for use as flocking?

--Rik

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