10x Objectives: UPlanSApo 10x VS UPlanFL N 10x Ph1

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

Moderators: Pau, rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S.

Macro_Cosmos
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Sydney

10x Objectives: UPlanSApo 10x VS UPlanFL N 10x Ph1

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

I recently purchased an Olympus UPlanSApo 10x that has some slight delamination issues. Decided to test it against my 10x UPlanFL N Ph1. Interesting results.

(Strikethrough doesn't work!)
[s]Considering how new the UIS2 objectives are, this delamination case is very scary. It's probably not due to the age.[/s]

I originally thought the dots were delamination, turns out I was just being silly and ignorant. Thanks to user abednego1995 for the correction and showing the patent of this objective. It's clearly just black coatings/paint used to muzzle stray light. This is similar to the flocking stuff we do to our tubes.

I have updated the blog post accordingly, to reflect this fact. I also have a UMPlan 10x coming, designed for metallurgical purposes. I don't need that many 10x objectives, but it was $50... how can I miss that? Going to put that in the mix and see how everything stacks up.

Image

https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... ng-plague/
Last edited by Macro_Cosmos on Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Scarodactyl
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:26 am

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by Scarodactyl »

I'm glad it works! Any chance you have a stereo or lwd objective to get a closer look at the spots?
I got to try a 20x superapo earlier this year and I was impressed.

Macro_Cosmos
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:22 am
I'm glad it works! Any chance you have a stereo or lwd objective to get a closer look at the spots?
I got to try a 20x superapo earlier this year and I was impressed.
Unfortunately I don't have a stereomicroscope, I do plan on getting one, made a mid-range model such as the SZ51 from Olympus. I have LWD objectives, EO 2x and 5x, I'll have a look at tthe delamination using those later. :)

The 20x SApo is a beautiful piece of optic. If you get lucky, you can find one for a bargain.
Here's a motorised U-UCD8A with 5 UIS2 prisms, sold for $999.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-U-UCD8 ... Swe65fTgXT

Crazy...

abednego1995
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by abednego1995 »

Erm. No, Macro Cosmos... those spots you see in the objective aren't evidence of delamination. The edges of objective elements are painted black to lower internal reflection problems. Some spots on the rough glass has rubbed off showing the dots. Completely normal. They even show on new objectives. Cosmetic problem, true, but they're not evident in the exit pupil nor BFP right?

What plagues Oly objectives, is the delamination/bubbles forming in the cemented rearmost element. They really have a QC problem with this.

Cheers,
John

Macro_Cosmos
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

abednego1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:55 pm
Erm. No, Macro Cosmos... those spots you see in the objective aren't evidence of delamination. The edges of objective elements are painted black to lower internal reflection problems. Some spots on the rough glass has rubbed off showing the dots. Completely normal. They even show on new objectives. Cosmetic problem, true, but they're not evident in the exit pupil nor BFP right?

What plagues Oly objectives, is the delamination/bubbles forming in the cemented rearmost element. They really have a QC problem with this.

Cheers,
John
I'm puzzled now. Is there a way differentiate? I received a 100x with a similar issue, which I thought was due to some kind of coatings falling off.
https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... -shipping/

I will need to revise the articles. I don't want to be misleading and initiate unfair refunds.
This is however not present in my 10x FLs (I have 4 different copies), 20x, 40x, 60x, 3 out of 4 of my 100x objectives... Is it objective or batch specific? Or maybe just a QC lucky dip? :oops:
Evidently, there is no impact on image quality, sample size 1. It's a very powerful objective (the 10x) and produces crisp images.

abednego1995
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by abednego1995 »

Ok, first.
About your UPlanSApo10x, you need to know where you're looking at. (i.e. which surface of whatever element)
Here's the element positions assumed the patent is for the UPlanSApo10x. (US pat. US7158310B2)
UPlanSApo10x.png
What you were seeing in your blog, is the outer most periphery of the 1st surface of the 1st element. (the region in red) That's where the polished region ends and the rough painted region begins.
So it's perfectly normal.

Second, about the 100x objective you mentioned in the other blog post.
IF, those bright spots were foreign objects inside the objective, they should show up as shadows at least darker than the center bright region. I'd rather assume those spots are flaked off protective paint on the first element. That region would do nothing with making the image, and would do no harm to the magnified image (assuming that you are diligent with the field diaphragm, not overfilling the field.)

And finally, what would a delaminated element look like?
It would be a well demarcated discontinuity in refractive index. The edges could be smooth, sometimes irregular. Most of the time at the edges, but sometimes smack in the middle. But when you observe it at a slightly oblique angle with the lighting coming from the side you are observing it, you will see the telltale sheen in reflection. Interference colors.

Observing defects from the outside is the first thing to do. The next is to use a phase telescope to observe each surface within.
Of course, skip everything if you can measure the PSF. (Though I doubt you will find PSF perfect high NA objectives in the wild...)

P.S. UIS2 entered the market in 2004. That's a tad more than a decade ago.

Cheers,
John

Ichthyophthirius
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 am

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Hi,

I agree. This looks as if the black paint, that masks the outer (unused) region of the front lens, has partially rubbed off.

I have seen this frequently on 160 mm objectives from Olympus and Nikon. The black masking paint is partially or completely stripped by harsh or too frequent lens cleaning. Unfortunately Leica followed their lead and now also uses this method of masking; their paint also sometimes comes off.

I don't think it's a big issue but it makes it essential to use Koehler illumination with a field aperture to prevent stray light.

Regards, Ichty

Macro_Cosmos
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:23 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

abednego1995 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:13 am
Ok, first.
About your UPlanSApo10x, you need to know where you're looking at. (i.e. which surface of whatever element)
Here's the element positions assumed the patent is for the UPlanSApo10x. (US pat. US7158310B2)

UPlanSApo10x.png

Second, about the 100x objective you mentioned in the other blog post.
IF, those bright spots were foreign objects inside the objective, they should show up as shadows at least darker than the center bright region. I'd rather assume those spots are flaked off protective paint on the first element. That region would do nothing with making the image, and would do no harm to the magnified image (assuming that you are diligent with the field diaphragm, not overfilling the field.)
Thanks for your expert advice, really appreciate it. You're right.

I simply placed the objective on a blank slide above a cellphone LED. Then I used my U-CT (phase contrast centring scope) to inspect the UPlanSApo 10x, those little dots were indeed just paint of sorts, done rather inadequately but has zero affect on the image.

With regards to the 100x, I can't get a nice view with adequate illumination due to what appears to be an internal aperture that blocks out the transmitted light. The white spots must be closer to the rear element, I think it's just dust. I'll have to fire up the frakenmeasurescope setup to get a better view.

Going to update the blog article. Thanks a lot!

abednego1995
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: 10x Objective with delamination testing

Post by abednego1995 »

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:40 am
With regards to the 100x, I can't get a nice view with adequate illumination due to what appears to be an internal aperture that blocks out the transmitted light.
That's why you oil oil immersion objectives! It's impossible to introduce light into an oil immersion objective at an greater angle than NA1.0 without immersing it. Plus, the exit pupil of a high NA high power objective is pretty small, so I'd doubt you'll see anything outside it even when using a phase telescope.

Happy scoping, mate!

Cheers,
John

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic