Thorlabs ITL200 adapters help needed

[nielsgeode]

Yes and no. I'm looking for good image quality, but I don't need or want to bother to squeeze out the last 3% with a large amount of effort or costs.

Stitching is a thing for me. On the one hand it's tempting to make super high-resolution images. On the other hand it takes so much time and I'm almost never able to make a proper stitch out of the individual output stacked files I make (in the attempts I have done in the past). The problem is that I stack crystals with perfectly straight lines and even the tiniest of mismatch in the frames during stitching is obvious from a mile away.

My other main reason for stitching is when the magnification is slightly off, for example an 8mm crystal with my fullframe sensor and 5x magnification (7.2mm fov). However, given the amount of stacks I want to do it's best to not be too picky for most of them and only put a lot of time/effort in the very best onces.

I think the best is to get the cheaper (annoying) clamps and make a fixed setup with the tubes, clamps and arca plate. For that one I mount the ITL in normal orientation. If I ever want something else I will get a second clamp, tubes, arca plate so I can swap the entire 'thing' at once. Should be much more practical.

Since it's the corners, I'm not sure if that's even 3% extra.

For crystals, yeah I would avoid stitching. There's lots of very fine and thin crystals, software hates it. I assume you won't need edge-to-edge sharpness then. I know a someone who does excellent crystal stacks, most of his time is spent cleaning up the tiny dust particles and imperfections in post. He uses a 10x, a Canon 5Dmk2, and a Sony a6300.

Another method that just sprung to my mind is simply reversing the entire thing. Get yourself a short-ish A-S rail, like this one: https://www.reallyrightstuff.com/MPR-113-SOAR-rail

If you ever want to mount the ITL200 in retro, just swap the entire thing around. Add tubes to the front and take ones from the rear. Just make sure the tube assembly is clamped with the ITL200 sandwiched in the centre of 2 collars.
Here's mine. I personally use the long rail to coarsely focus. Simply rearrange the collars a bit. Focus can still be adjusted with the variable tube by loosening the collar.
itl.jpg

Thanks for all the info! I'm wondering if there are cheaper alternatives to some of the parts in the Thorlabs m52 setup. For example the ring collars or the stackable tubes themselves. They are not that fancy and I think Chinese tubes flocked or painted will work just as good?

[JKT]

I think there are two issues here. First is that the ring collars have to match the tubes pretty much exactly. So you need to get them from the same source as the tube. There likely are other sources, but I ended up with Thorlabs as well.

The other problems is the ITL200 and its fixing. With most lenses you can fix one end to the end of your tubes and fix the microscope adapter on the other end. In such case alternative tubes would be easy to use. With ITL200 you have only one fixing point so it has to go inside the tube and you need a special adapter for it. Thorlabs tubes have inside thread and an adapter that uses them. There likely are others, but chances are they are not any cheaper. Or you could design your own adapter, which would take the ITL and have the necessary threads on both sides and have it made somewhere... Likely not cheap either, but from RAF it might not brake the bank.

[Scarodactyl]

RAF is pretty cheap all things considered, especially in comparison to thorlabs. But shipping times are likely longer than ever at the moment.

[JKT]

No problems with shipping to Finland. Netherlands might well be same ... or not. Difficult to say.

[Macro_Cosmos]

Thanks for all the info! I'm wondering if there are cheaper alternatives to some of the parts in the Thorlabs m52 setup. For example the ring collars or the stackable tubes themselves. They are not that fancy and I think Chinese tubes flocked or painted will work just as good?

Yeah absolutely. Here you go.
ITL200 housing: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=adapte ... m42-thread
Clamp: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=tube-clamp-46c
50mm tube: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=50mm-l ... nsion-tube
10mm: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=10mm-l ... nsion-tube

These tubes come flocked too. ITL200 housing allows retro and normal orientations.
To get exact distances, you may need to fiddle around a bit. I do not recommend helicoids. A friend quoted $500 for a helicoid that ensures optical alignment, and he makes good stuff, not cheap ones.

These are handy too: https://rafcamera.com/adapter-m42x1f-10mm (double female threaded)
Same as SM2Vx0 types: https://rafcamera.com/extender-m42x1-50 ... -stop-ring

I think Wemacro should make some of these too, he's a busy man. I'll see what I can do.

[nielsgeode]

Thanks for all the info! I'm wondering if there are cheaper alternatives to some of the parts in the Thorlabs m52 setup. For example the ring collars or the stackable tubes themselves. They are not that fancy and I think Chinese tubes flocked or painted will work just as good?

Yeah absolutely. Here you go.
ITL200 housing: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=adapte ... m42-thread
Clamp: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=tube-clamp-46c
50mm tube: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=50mm-l ... nsion-tube
10mm: https://www.wemacro.com/?product=10mm-l ... nsion-tube

These tubes come flocked too. ITL200 housing allows retro and normal orientations.
To get exact distances, you may need to fiddle around a bit. I do not recommend helicoids. A friend quoted $500 for a helicoid that ensures optical alignment, and he makes good stuff, not cheap ones.
itl.jpg

These are handy too: https://rafcamera.com/adapter-m42x1f-10mm (double female threaded)
Same as SM2Vx0 types: https://rafcamera.com/extender-m42x1-50 ... -stop-ring

I think Wemacro should make some of these too, he's a busy man. I'll see what I can do.

Thanks, that's looks good. However, I wonder if the smaller diameter of 42mm compared to SM2 gives increased lens flare (given that you flock the Thorlabs tubes)?
Second: I also look at a fixed system for my 8000ED scanner lens, so I can finally use it after it has been in a cupboard for 2 years. I think for this lens the SM2 tubes are recommended compared to M42 tubing?
I also wonder what tube length is used in the setup described on closeupphotography.com. It says:

3. Thorlabs SM2 Stackable Extension Tubes
Official name: Ø2" Stackable Lens Tubes
Retail price: $23-36 ea.
Link to Thorlabs site:https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9. ... up_id=3383
Note: SM2L15, 1.5 inch unit

I'm not sure if that note means that the tube between camera and 8000ED is 1.5 inch long? It looks a bit longer? Tube number 5 is 3" long and looks shorter than #3.

Another question: The threaded sleeve(s) that are fixed around the 8000ED scanner lens are 2" long according to the description. In the picture however, one is clearly longer than the other. Would it have been cut to the correct length or am I missing something?



Also I don't get how the distance can be adjusted with the wemacro system:

[Macro_Cosmos]

discard this

[Macro_Cosmos]

Your editing of the post messed up my response... I'll fix it. Seems like a bug. When someone edit a post and someone else is in the middle of responding to it, the edit gets renewed and all the text is gone. So I ended up with a quote of the post and my input was overwritten.

[nielsgeode]

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that.

[Macro_Cosmos]

Thanks, that's looks good. However, I wonder if the smaller diameter of 42mm compared to SM2 gives increased lens flare (given that you flock the Thorlabs tubes)?
Second: I also look at a fixed system for my 8000ED scanner lens, so I can finally use it after it has been in a cupboard for 2 years. I think for this lens the SM2 tubes are recommended compared to M42 tubing?

It won't increase flare. You might get mechanical vignetting, some reported on that. All you have to then do is cut out a bit of the flocking on the sensor's side. I haven't encountered that.
I recommended swapping those collar twist knobs with actual M5 screws. Tightening them with hand is a nuisance to me.
SM2 will definitely work with the SN8000ED, so will M42. The lens has a smooth bore, so mounting is not trivial at all. I had an adaptor designed for it, but I swapped the lens for a MN5400 with a forum member. No regrets. If I ever get the SN8000ED again, I'll get the adaptor made. It's SM2 threaded.

I also wonder what tube length is used in the setup described on closeupphotography.com.

I don't know either. You can just turn liveview on and shoot a ruler to get 1:1. Tubing length shouldn't matter too much. It's gonna depend on how you mount the SN8000ED. Unless yours is made 100% identical to Robert's, you shouldn't worry about the lengths and getting it exact.

You're confused about the sleeve lengths, right? Why are they long or short... I think that's what you meant.
It's actually called a coupler, not a sleeve. A sleeve would be a long clamp that mates two tubes together. A coupler joins them mechanically.

You can just rotate the coupler into the tubes. SM2Mxx tubes are SM2 threaded internally. That's how Robert probably fine tuned for 1x too. Just rotate the thing till it's there.

This is the part number: https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cf ... ber=SM2T10
Other lengths are available.

Also I don't get how the distance can be adjusted with the wemacro system:

It can't be adjusted very well. That's why I said they should make these longer adjustable tubes. It does work for ITL200. If you subtract the typical DSLR (45mm, 46mm types) flange distance from the setups (148mm recommended or 245mm retro), you get either 100mm or 200mm. You're focusing the ITL200 to infinity and the objective acts as an iris. There's more than enough play room to make up for the 1-2mm discrepancy. Using mirrorless? Just get a high quality mechanical adaptor to the F-mount.

x1 threads are so much looser than SM2 (x0.675). This could bring in a myriad of optical instability issues. Best way I guess would be using T2 (M42x0.5) threads for adjustment. The internal thread of the adjuster would be M42x1, and the collar that holds the threaded adjuster should be M42x1 externally threaded. After some discussing and thought, I don't think it's a good idea. Making an adaptor conform to my second point isn't going to be cheap. I can get a quote, but experience tells me it will cost $50 or above.

[Macro_Cosmos]

Oh and what they can make is an ITL200 housing that has long enough threads to fine tune the distances. A spanner ring can be used to hold it in place. A simple adaptor costs around $30 for me. The spanner... yeah that tiny sheet of metal is going to be exactly that, making the entire thing more expensive than Thorlabs' off the shelf units.
The wemacro one actually offers a small range of adjustments. While it's not possible to add say 10mm via adjusting like the SM2 variable tubes, adding 1-3mm is entirely possible and usually all we need. The ITL200 must be locked down with a spanner ring, else it will wobble inside causing optical axis misalignment.

In such a case, just get this: https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cf ... ber=SM38RR
$13, better than $30.
And they give you a snackbox!

[nielsgeode]

You're confused about the sleeve lengths, right? Why are they long or short... I think that's what you meant.
It's actually called a coupler, not a sleeve. A sleeve would be a long clamp that mates two tubes together. A coupler joins them mechanically.

You can just rotate the coupler into the tubes. SM2Mxx tubes are SM2 threaded internally. That's how Robert probably fine tuned for 1x too. Just rotate the thing till it's there.

I'm talking about the threaded tubes that are fixed onto the barrel of the 8000ED lens:



In this picture, you see 2 of those threaded tubes with different lengths.

Also, do you know if Thorlabs has SM2 adapter to Canon EF? I can't find it on their website. They do have one to M52, which I can use to get to M25 and M26 (my Nikon 4x NA 0.20 has M25 thread). On the camera side I like SM2 to Canon EF in one adapter. I know Rafcamera has it, but if Thorlabs has it I can order there and don't have to wait for Raf (+ the SM2 to M52 is cheaper at thorlabs than at rafcamera).

[JKT]

I don't think they do. The RAF adapter EF->SM2 has the same length as going from EF->M42->SM2 with Thorlabs SM2A25. There is also RAF adapter that goes from EF to both M49x0.75 and M58x0.75. The length for M49x0.75 is the same as EF->M42. Corresponding Thorlabs adapter is SM2A26, which has the same length as SM2A25. RAF seems a must if you want larger than 42mm camera fixing.

[nielsgeode]

RAF seems a must if you want larger than 42mm camera fixing.

Yes, I want that so then I go for RAF for the EF adapter.


To be sure: the "Ø2" Lens Tubes Without External Threads" have inner threads all the way through the entire length of the tube whereas the tubes with external threads don't have that?

[nielsgeode]

Is it correct that Tube #3 and the tube that is fixed inside the center ring collar are coupled together with an SM2T2 coupler



I think what you see here are SM2T10 and SM2T20?