The Canon R5

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Macro_Cosmos
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

enricosavazzi wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:03 pm
Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:08 am
[...] I quick thought, how about making sure the fan has literally no contact to the heatsink, while also being as closely placed to it as possible? This could work out in our favour.
One possible problem is that turbulence created by the fan blades in the air flow can transmit vibrations to the heatsink. It might be possible to reduce these vibrations with a "labyrinth" of baffles and/or a felt coating inside a sufficiently long air duct that leads from the fan to the heat sink. This requires a more powerful fan, but there is no particular reason why the fan should sit close to the heatsink. With an air duct, the distance between fan and heat sink can be as high as desired.

A possible solution might be using a heat pipe to carry heat from the camera to a large, convection-cooled heat sink. As long as there is no boiling (only evaporation) of the cooling fluid within the heat pipe, there should be no significant vibration.

A Peltier element with its cool side attached to the camera could also be used to pump heat away from the camera casing and toward a heat sink. Peltier elements are vibration-free.
Oh I did not think about that! Yeah, it achieves nothing, unless I suppose the fan is very bad quality and wobbles violently. Even the cheap fans nowadays are alright, I have some salvaged small fans that seem decent to work.
Thermal electric cooling utilises a peltier element. Another method is simply 100% passive cooling, have giant heatsinks connected to the peltier.

The heat built up over time will have a negative impact on images, prolonged shooting generates hot pixels as we all know. Never had that issue with my z6 even over 3000 shots in a session, but the R5 overheats easily and the Z6 doesn't. A friend ran a quick test on his GFX 50R. He discovered that having the memory card slot chamber open actually cools the camera down. Over about 2000 shots, he said there's hot pixels that can be seen when zooming in. The GFX 50R isn't known for overheating I think. Many discovered this "fix" for the R5 too, I guess a lot of heat is indeed built up in that section and of course around the CFE cards. Those I've heard do get hot.

chris_ma
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by chris_ma »

yeah, if I hat to make sure the camera operates reliably in very hot environments a peltier with small passive heatsink is what I would use. it seems that with no card in the camera overheating is less of a problem, so with tethering and normal stacking shooting speeds I would be very surprised if there ever was overheating problems.

it looks like a very good camera from all I gathered on the web, but I feel most of it's features are not terribly useful on rail stacking, so unless one needs it for other purposes as well or is absolutely in love with the color rendering it seems a bit a high price.
chris

Ichthyophthirius
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

kaleun96 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:45 am
I think it was in a review by Gerald Undone that it was mentioned that shooting stills will contribute to the over-heating issues
Hi,

Does it say anywhere how the test was done? I couldn't see it in the YouTube review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDXPiu3wpBs

I'm asking because there is another review out here https://www.diyphotography.net/canon-eo ... -firmware/ suggesting that the overheating issue doesn't actually exist at all and is just a software limitation.

That would in turn explain why in the YouTube review, ambient temperature and power saving features had no influence on the "overheating", though they should have had!

Regards, Ichty

kaleun96
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by kaleun96 »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:24 am
suggesting that the overheating issue doesn't actually exist at all and is just a software limitation.
That's a giant leap from what the article actually suggests though. It's unlikely Canon has launched their camera with a massive disability for no reason - that if true would be quick to fix prior to launch (as it was known from tests with alpha/beta users). Instead, the camera likely does have an issue with overheating but they have just hardcoded the shut-down and recovery rather than make those thresholds dynamic and dependent on sensor readings.

I'm not sure how you could conclude that the "overheating issue doesn't actually exist" from that.
Does it say anywhere how the test was done? I couldn't see it in the YouTube review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDXPiu3wpBs
He has discussed the tests in more detail somewhere, can't recall where exactly. There was another reviewer who was comparing their test design against his and others too which might mention it.

But what I wrote wasn't really specific to his testing conditions and is something reported by others (e.g. DPReview) and also makes a fair amount of sense: using the camera in any form will warm it up. Why this is particularly concerning with the Canon is because of the long recovery times and also how quickly it can hit the threshold for overheating when recording video. I could see myself in the field shooting a bunch of stills and then trying a bit of 4k120, run into overheating, and then be prevented from shooting stills until it has recovered. You can't even have the camera on to setup a shot.
- Cam

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

A lot of the stuff online must be questioned nowadays. Canon went over the top this time with marketing. If anyone thinks it's sensationalised in the western market, I'd invite them to have a look at how Canon China did their (horrible) marketing. They opened insinuated that Nikon and Sony should be scared, and their products are worse with skilful playing of the Chinese language. They had "等你康康" in the flyers. 康康 (kang kang) is colloquialism for "have a peek", but Nikon is "尼康 (ni kang)" in Chinese, and "等你 (deng ni)" means waiting for you. So this turns into "deng ni kang kang", doesn't take an expert to see this. It would be very funny if Nikon did drop something massive with matched specs and no overheating, but Nikon's marketing has never been good, and I've never seen them taking a shot at other brands; unlike Canon.
Then they took shots at Sony too, which riled up a bunch of internet fights featuring brand loyal warriors, in turn generating free press for Canon. Sony's fanbase is commonly referred to as a cult online, so it was a massive mess. People had extremely high expectations as a result.

Now they are seeing sizeable backlash despite the R5 being an extremely competitive and solid stills camera. The fanbase of brands (Sonikon in this case) who were opened implied are now laughing, many acting smug with "toll ja" comments.
Rumours of an R5 recall and "intentionally crippled" started to circulate. Presumably the R5 recall rumour originated from some online blog called EOSHD where the author was salty over the brand, and the "overheating is a software limitation" originated from another forum.

The R5 is a good camera, and just like any camera, comes with a set of limitations. Out of the 3 big ones, Nikon's mirrorless cameras never had any detrimental overheating issues that made headlines, yet according to "internet experts", Nikon is heading down the road of Olympus' camera division. Most of this stuff is simply untrue.

Shooting tethered in a cool room is indeed the better choice. The R5 uses usb-c right? Transfer speeds will be fast! The overheating issue is likely not even a big problem for stills.

Ichthyophthirius
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Laws of thermodynamics partially restored, in that the R5 runtime is now actually dependent on the ambient temperature, with new firmware. Makes more sense now. Lots of reviews are online about this; I linked a reviewer who isn't shouting at us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bOeoYI6EYs

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