Cooled CCD Recommendations?

[ldflan]

Hi everybody.

I am doing some immunofluorescence studies and would be grateful for any advice on low light imaging equipment you might be able to offer or point me toward.

I am working with a Nikon Diaphot TMD and a Leitz Ortholux II. The Diaphot has both a 35mm Nikon F-mount camera port and a 38mm cine port; the Ortholux II has a Vario-orthomat zoom assembly adapted to M42 screw mount set at the associated 35mm camera flange-to-film plane distance (adjustable within limits).

I am getting a good deal of noise from the low light levels, even using the Sony 7s which handles low light extremely well for a color digital camera.

I am fine with used equipment, and would prefer something that was or is popular for ease of replacement.

I am fine with monochrome imaging.

Cooled CCD seems the right approach, but if there are reasons to go a different route, I would love to know.

I would prefer a system that does not require a bespoke PCI bus card that is impossible to find.

I would greatly prefer the system to be interchangeable between the two scopes, though adaptation to the Nikon's cine port is the priority.

Thanks so much for any guidance you might have to offer, or pointing me in the right direction to find it!

Leonard

[Lou Jost]

I use a QHY 163 cooled-sensor astrophotography camera with an MFT sized sensor (accepts Nikon/Canon lenses). You can get these in color or monochrome (monochrome gives you much greater low-light sensitivity). I run it with the sensor at -5C or -10C. This has very low noise. There are larger-sensor astro cameras too, but these rapidly get very expensive. The small-sensor versions are cheap and common.

[ldflan]

QHY 163 cooled-sensor astrophotography camera . . .

That looks like a fine camera at a good price point. What's the dovetail size? Getting it on the scope at the proper spacing might be an issue.

Leonard

[Lou Jost]

I'm not sure, I keep a dovetail-to-Nikon mount on it, so it acts just like a Nikon camera body.

[enricosavazzi]

QHY 163 cooled-sensor astrophotography camera . . .

[...] What's the dovetail size? [...]

The description of the camera kit includes a "T2 to 1.25" adapter", so my guess is that the camera has a T/T2 native mount.

[dickb]

QHY 163 cooled-sensor astrophotography camera . . .

That looks like a fine camera at a good price point. What's the dovetail size? Getting it on the scope at the proper spacing might be an issue.

Leonard

This picture from the camera's manual might help:


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[enricosavazzi]

As I thought, M42 x 0.75 is indeed T/T2. Don't confuse it with the M42 x 1 "Pentax" thread, which is more common among camera lenses.

[Lou Jost]

It is interesting to see how imprecise the back focus is, according to this documentation: 17.0-17.5mm.

[dickb]

If I understand the manual correctly the M42x0.75 lens mount is a separate piece, and can be replaced by f.i. a C mount. Perhaps this user replaceable mount system is the reason for the back focus imprecision (listed as either 17-17.5mm or "about 18mm").

[Lou Jost]

Yes Dick, it's a separate piece. The dealers usually offer several interchangeable mount options.

Note that there is no physical shutter button and no memory card. Both the temperature and the captures are controlled by, and sent to, your laptop.

[Macro_Cosmos]

Really depends on your budget and needs.

Do you need 12b, 14b or 16b? The price jump between all three is staggering.

What format is required? M4/3, 1-inch, APS-H, APS-C, full frame, medium format? Or just a small sensor?

Does it have to be a CCD? Cooled CMOS cameras are very good as well.

Monochrome or colour? How much MP and consequently the pixel density you require?

QHYCCD offers all kinds of cooled cameras, multispectrum cameras, and cooled CMOS cameras with 16b ADC and a lot off pixels. The price range is staggering.

As others have recommended, QHYCCD does offer great solutions and somewhat reasonable priced: https://www.qhyccd.com/

[ldflan]

"Really depends on your budget and needs. --"


12bit is fine, 16bit would be nice.
Sensor size is negotiable. The bigger issue is noise.
Cooled CMOS is fine.
Monochrome is fine, actually preferred.
Noise is more of an issue than pixel density.
4MP should be adequate. 16MP ideal.
Price point between $0-$1500. The cheaper the better, but if it doesn't work it's money wasted...

The QHY 163M seems like a really powerful option. I like the automatic filter wheel and I like the 4/3 format...

Leonard

[ldflan]

"This picture from the camera's manual might help:"


Indeed it does! This should be a snap.

Thanks very much!

Leonard

[Lou Jost]

I've enjoyed mine. I've only used it for monochromatic laser light, so can't vouch for the filter wheel, but it should work.

If you need good low-light abilities, better to go with monochrome because the Bayer filter otherwise cuts out a large fraction of the light reaching the sensor.

Cooling to -5 or -10C makes a big difference with respect to noise. This camera has an effective "frost guard" that heats up the sensor window just enough to keep condensation away.

I bought mine two years ago, so you may want to check if there is a more recent model.

[Ichthyophthirius]

Hi,

There is also the sensor size to consider. The Nikon Diaphot TMD front photoport has a 2.5x magnification (designed for full frame), the magnification of the side port depends on the projective you have (I think a CF 2.0x is the smallest you can usually get). This can result in quite a small image crop with a small sensor. Page 25: https://neurophysics.ucsd.edu/Manuals/N ... ot-TMD.pdf

I don't know of Nikon had a suitable optic to reduce the image size down for smaller formats. This is a common problem for Olympus microscopes.

The sideport might be possible by using a visual CFW(N) 10x eyepiece and an afocal adaptation of the camera, i.e. using an intermediate optic to reduce the image size.

Regards, Ichty