What's the mirrorless winner - need your help please!

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johan
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What's the mirrorless winner - need your help please!

Post by johan »

Hi,

I was hoping to canvass as wide a possible opinion base on which brand/model looks like it's winning the race to become THE mirrorless leader of the next 5/10 years. Investing in a new/unknown system is a big investment and I'd like to make sure I get it right for the medium term. If you could also explain why then that'd be really great

Thanks!!!
My extreme-macro.co.uk site, a learning site. Your comments and input there would be gratefully appreciated.

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

Hi Johan,

I often travel to trade shows for my work and I talk to a lot of the camera reps and the guys at Sony had interesting advice for me. They told me to not 'invest' in anything before you do a long term test drive of the camera system. They recommended an A6000 or A6300 and not to bother with the A6500 or A7, A7R, A7RII the higher end models to try the system.

It worked. I am glad I tried the A6300, which I still use.

If I did not already have a high-end full frame camera I would own the A7RIII for sure.

The A6300 is my studio macro camera but I still prefer the D850 for work in the field.

Best,

Robert

JohnyM
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Post by JohnyM »

For me it's Sony.

Im using A7RIII, A7RII, A6300 and multiple A6000 cameras:
-Excellent BSI sensor with very low noice that's not weird Xtrans or other woodo (i had very bad experience with brightfield microscopy).
-Highest resolution in sensor class*
*Lack of AA filter in A7RX bodies - still more detail than mine 50mpx Canon 5DSR
-Excellent RAW files - since if i care i shoot RAW, and if i shoot RAW i have no problems in getting what i want and beyond. This used to be a problem when i shot Canon DSLR's. Now i only have acces to 5DSR, but i had no interest in testing that camera in this aspect since it provides no edge over A7RX in terms of resolution.
-4K video with S-Logs
-IBIS for anything. I do switch it off for studio and micro, but when i forgot about it, i didnt screwed any project YET. So it must be somehow intelligent.
-Electronic shutter
-Flash with EFSC (Godox)
-Outstanding native glass, that cover all my needs, and is by now IMO pretty matured (my lenses are: 16-35Z, 55Z, 90G, 70-200GM)
-Adapt ANY lens i fancy - most with AF that was okayish in mkII bodies and is close to native with mkIII bodies (my case: MP-E65, canon cheapeo zooms for video, tamron 150-600)
-Good thethering since mkIII bodies, mkII bodies suffer, but ARE manageable (Rail+TV+PC).

Unless you mean small sensors of 4/3 world, which i have no clue about. Some 4/3 bodies with automated 6k focus stacks looks very interesting, but they price point is approaching that of full frame cameras.

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

JohnyM wrote:For me it's Sony.

Im using A7RIII, A7RII, A6300 and multiple A6000 cameras
That group is just about impossible to beat in my opinion 8)



Robert

Pau
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Post by Pau »

New FF mirrorless Nikon and Canon systems seem very promising, maybe too new to have been thoroughly tested and even more to predict their future.
Pau

Macro_Cosmos
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Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Eh, stick to the current system. A mirror removed doesn't improve photos (well it does empirically, but a lot more information will be required... for what use? What kind of macro setup?).

For me, it would be the fujifilm GFX-100s, or just a view camera. PhaseOne IQ3, monochrome!

For crop, Sony a6300.

FX, I don't know. None of the Sonys interest me after playing with various dark field raws, it's my way of stacking though, long exposures.

Seen the Nikon Z7 taken apart, barely any heatsinking on the sensor side... lesser than the a7-line. Not optimistic.

If we're talking about field macro at lower magnifications, I'd go with the a7r3, great camera with a readily available ecosystem for all kinds of adaptation. For higher magnification, it's going to be a good'ole DSLR for me. I'd love to have one of those digital backs but I still want my kidneys :D

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Really depends on what you use it for. MFT is my recommendation for field work in remote areas. Not because the cameras are smaller (though they are) but because the lenses are MUCH smaller and lighter. Hi-res mode produces quality similar to FF if the subject does not move. If it moves, you are stuck with 20Mp, but that is enough for small enlargements and web work.

Mirrorless silent shutter has huge advantages for deep or high-m stacking; no moving parts, no advancing shutter count. Olympus MFT allows flash with silent shutter; other brands need a work-around.

I like the Pentax K-1 in Live View for FF; not quite silent shutter but it fires after the exposure is done.

Sony has some odd philosophy around its RAW images, not sure I trust them, though nearly everyone likes them, so a Sony camera probably would not disappoint.

ray_parkhurst
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Post by ray_parkhurst »

I'm probably going to go with the A7000 (or whatever it will be called) once it's confirmed that Imaging Edge supports it with Live View.

johan
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Post by johan »

Thanks gents, much appreciated. Nice to have the benefit of an informed choice
My extreme-macro.co.uk site, a learning site. Your comments and input there would be gratefully appreciated.

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Johan,

I'm staying with Nikon, find it too hard to learn another camera system (too old to train this dog new tricks!).

I have the Z7 mirrorless, all I can say is "WOW"!!

The viewfinder is amazing and I like the potential of the new Z mount with 16mm flange to sensor distance and the 55mm diameter.

I did a quick test with some Nikon F mount lenses with the adapter, they all worked fine, some Tamron's didn't (they'll need a firmware update). I did one quick test with the Rokinon 135mm F2 (sharpest lens I have), it was very good (in camera VR really helped).

I haven't had any time to use the Z7 though, tied up developing the Precision Stack and Stitch controller at the moment, this consumes all my "free" time (really good progress). Don't expect to get around to playing around with the Z7 soon though.

I think all the usual players will be around and doing well with mirrorless in the future, the DSLR will probably slowly fade away though. All the cameras are so good now, you can't pick a "bad" one!!

What will be interesting to see is what lenses are developed for mirrorless and how they perform. Somewhere I recall someone reported the new Nikon 24-70 F4 for the Z mount was as sharp as a prime, which is encouraging!!

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

JohnyM
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Post by JohnyM »

My 2 cents about new Nikons and Canon:
Big disappointment.

NOTHING new, no breakthrough, no feature that's already on mirorless market.

In fact, they feel like gen 1 sony's.

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Johnny, yes, the Z7 is a very conservative camera, and I was especially sad that it did not have pixel-shift technology. But it does have a breakthrough mount, that allows optical innovation beyond what any other FF brand can do. (I suspect that MFT flanges are proportionately about as wide as that of the Z7, and there are already f/0.95 lenses for MFT format.)

JohnyM
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Post by JohnyM »

I've heard that. Yet exactly WHAT this breakthrough is, beside propaganda and vague claims, remain a mystery to me. Most sources are quoting manual focus 0.95 Nikon yet to be released lens.

Yet all those claims keep forgetting that there already ARE 0.95 native lenses for E-Mount.

Edit: Yet another 0.95 lens is coming... for Z, R... and E mounts:
https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/first- ... d-nikon-z/

Edit 2:
How about Noctilux on Leica M-mount?

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

Lou Jost wrote:Johnny, yes, the Z7 is a very conservative camera, and I was especially sad that it did not have pixel-shift technology. But it does have a breakthrough mount, that allows optical innovation beyond what any other FF brand can do. (I suspect that MFT flanges are proportionately about as wide as that of the Z7, and there are already f/0.95 lenses for MFT format.)
Hi Lou, its interesting that Nikon and Canon took such different paths, Canon took a big chance in '87 going from FD > EOS mount but they gained a lot of people like me that bought an EOS camera just so they could use USM EOS lenses.

Glad to see the Z mount here but they should have done that years ago.

BTW I was a little surprised when I picked my first E-Mount camera and lens, its larger, tighter and more rigid than the F and the reduced register distance is great.

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Yes, and I am very happy that Nikon now has a short register distance too. Maybe some day I will be able to use those wonderful Sony-mount Cosina macro lenses after all.

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