All-electronic shutters

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:34 pm

I'm wondering which of the current camera bodies have modes which are free of any movement from shutter curtains, and which of those can use flash. And what caveats and wrinkles there may be.
It's a set of information which is difficult to glean, other than from owners.

Perhaps folk could publish the facts for their own?
Basic information such as
MP, Frame rate(s), does flash sync, are there limitations of shutter speeds when using flash?

I think we can include those mirrorless cameras where only the rear curtain is mechanical and te mirror does not cycle.

I guess we have to include cameras where the mirror can be gLOUed up for the desired effect.

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:39 pm

It would be a worthwhile list to have.

As far as fully electronic shutter with flash sync goes I know of only three that will provide a flash sync signal when the full electronic shutter is used:

Olympus Pen F: 1/20 second and longer (Some other current Olympus models are likely the same, but I don't have that info)

Phase One IQ3 100mp: 1.3" (seconds) and longer

Nikon D850 (Robert O Toole indicated that a Nikon rep told him it could, but so far I have not seen a definitive answer. If it is so, it will be interesting to see what the fasted sync speed is).

Most Canon bodies have EFSC (not full electronic shutter, first curtain only), but as far as I know none will give a flash sync signal when that is used.

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:55 pm

Canons need a thread to themselves? Some/most/all since about the 50D vibrate a tiny bit, or more, on shutter activation, and many flap the mirror so they're out of consideraion really.

Sony?
Canon M?
Others?

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:51 pm

Chris, unfortunately gLouing the mirror up still leaves shutter vibrations, on my D90; but a camera with second-curtain shutter might satisfy your criterion if the mirror is glued up.

All recent Olympus mirrorless cameras have an option to use a fully electronic shutter, but as Charles said, in my experience only the PEN F (20Mp sensor, 80Mp hi res mode) works with flash without major restrictions. Shutter synch speed is slow though, 1/20 s. The newest top-of-the-line Oly OMD EM1 MII probably also has this feature.

For photographing specimens in liquid, even second-curtain mechanical shutter can be problematic because it vibrates the specimen and may move it slightly.

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:03 pm

ChrisR wrote: Sony?
Canon M?
Others?

The ones I mentioned above are the only ones that can provide a flash sync with the fully electronic shutter.

____________________________

Some other camera that offer a fully electronic shutter option are:

Sony (more than one model but off the top of my head I don't remember the models. Pretty sure A7rII, A7sII, A6300, A6500 )

Pentax K1 (full frame)
Pentax KP
(possibly some other Pentax models?)

Fuji X-A3
Fuji X-T20
Fuji X-T2
Fuji X-Pro2
Fuji X-T1
Fuji-X-T10

Panasonic...several of their "G" cameras... sorry don't know all the model names. GX7, GM1, GM5... more

Nikon V2

lothman · Post by **lothman** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:19 pm

Charles Krebs wrote: Sony (more than one model but off the top of my head I don't remember the models. Pretty sure A7rII, A7sII, A6300, A6500 )

Sony A7 M2 can, just tested

hkv · Post by **hkv** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:45 am

Sony A9 has fully electronic shutter. Completely silent and vibration free captures.

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:54 am

hkv, what about flash support in this electronic shutter mode? That's where the A7 fails.

hkv · Post by **hkv** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:20 am

Not supported according to sony and I have not tried it. However, some report they have managed to fire the flash down to 1/32000 despite the documented 1/250 limit. It seems to fire both shutters at the same time meaning you get the vibration from the shutter but the speed of the electronical. I have not tried it my self. May be a firmware bug.

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:18 am

Not supported according to sony and I have not tried it.

That's unfortunate. If Olympus can do it, why can't Sony?

Smokedaddy · Post by **Smokedaddy** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:40 am

Just today I was looking into buying a Flashpoint Studio 300 Monolight 'setup' for my Canon 50D. Being completely new to using a flash will their be issues and should I be looking at something else? Sure don't want to waste any money.

Regards,
-JW:

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:36 pm

Smokedaddy wrote:Just today I was looking into buying a Flashpoint Studio 300 Monolight 'setup' for my Canon 50D. Being completely new to using a flash will their be issues and should I be looking at something else? Sure don't want to waste any money.

Regards,
-JW:

I have no experience with that particular flash, but you can certainly use it with a 50D. If you are going to try and use it with "live view" you must be sure have "silent shoot" disabled in the live-view menu.

Macrero · Post by **Macrero** » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:35 am

I haven't seen yet the camera I'm looking for

I work with continuous light, no flash. I've been considering some of the cameras of the Charles list, the problem is that given my setup I work almost all the time at 2-3+seconds exposure time and the vast majority of cameras with fully electronic shutter are limited at 1 sec.

I'm not sure though if there would be a significant (or any) difference between shooting at 4-5 seconds with EFCS and at 1 sec with fully electronic shutter for magnifications up to 9-10X which is the max for what I'm doing.

Best,

- Macrero

hkv · Post by **hkv** » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:47 am

The Sony A9 can do 30s exposure time with fully electronic shutter. Also it has excellent low light and ISO performance keeping noise to a minimum. I did a very extensive review/research of cameras this summer and decided to go for the A9. No other camera came even close spec wise. The biggest drawback with the A9 is the USB2 port which limits the speed of image transfer to Capture One Pro. However, the camera buffer can hold over 240 images so the transfer can go on while I recompose my subjects for the next shoot.

Just to improve my understanding. Why is flash so important to you guys? I use my setup for micro only I yet I have never seen the need for using flash. I can set the shutter speed to 1/4000 and still get decent noise control under continuous light. At least with a 100W light source. 1/4000 is more than enough to freeze most cilia for example. Perhaps it is more important in macro? Can't you just blast it with more continuous lights?

Macrero · Post by **Macrero** » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:26 am

I didn't mention another important to me factor: a reasonable price. 4.000 EUR

is way above my cameras budget. So, what I'm looking for is a mirrorless camera at a reasonable price with a "good" sensor (preferably APS-C) and fully electronic shutter that can be used at more than 1" shutter speed. As far as I know, there's currently no such animal.