Nikon MPlan 60x ELWD finite NA 0.7 objective

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NikonUser
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Nikon MPlan 60x ELWD finite NA 0.7 objective

Post by NikonUser »

GemBro's recent post regarding a Nikon 60x equivalent:

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hlight=60x

reminded me that I have a Nikon MPlan 60x, NA 0.7 160/0.

I rarely use this lens and have forgotten how good/bad it is. One problem with a 60x objective, apart from the small WD and the minuscule DOF,
is trying to find the subject. On a full-frame sensor, 36mm, the frame width is a mere 0.6mm. However, for photographing scales on a moth's wing this is no
problem if a specific area is not required.

Here are scales on a silver-Y moth's wing.
One good point is that there is no vignetting on the Nikon D610 (full-frame).
Image quality is so-so; it shows the shape of the scales and the longitudinal veins but lacks the 'crispness' I would
expect to see with a modern infinity objective.
Image
Last edited by NikonUser on Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

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Re: Nikon MPlan 60x NA 0.7 objective

Post by Chris S. »

NikonUser wrote:One problem with a 60x objective, apart from the small WD and the minuscule DOF, is trying to find the subject. On a full-frame sensor, 36mm, the frame width is a mere 0.6mm."
NU, you need a sighting laser! I recently compared two 100x lenses using a slide of a single wing scale. With the sighting laser, finding and focusing on the scale were pretty easy. Without it, this would have driven me nuts.
One good point is that there is no vignetting on the Nikon D610 (full-frame).

Image quality is so-so; it shows the shape of the scales and the longitudinal veins but lacks the 'crispness' I would expect to see with a modern infinity objective.
I also have a specimen of this lens (Nikon 60x/0.70 ELWD finite), and like you, haven't used it recently. I'm pleasantly surprised that yours handles full frame so well--I've not tried it this way. In my memory of this lens, my specimen is as crisp and sharp as a modern infinite, but shows some axial chromatic aberration. I don't see any evidence of ACA in your image--did you correct for it?

Now, I'll have to test my specimen and see how well memory holds up. But there are three lenses already in the queue. . . .

Cheers,

--Chris
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Post by ChrisR »

It may not be a surprise that
1) I have one of these too
2) it stretches my abilities, more than the reverse
3) I've hardly used it :oops:
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Post by NikonUser »

I had read your post re: a sighting laser but forgot about it.
I have a MINI MAGLITE which can be focused; placed it on the eyepiece and got a nice small light dot on the subject - thanks for this most useful tip.

I processed the wing image in Photoshop and corrected for ACA.

As your lens gave sharp images I took a close look at mine. There was some very fine 'gunk' on the lens which I have now removed using methyl and isopropyl alcohols; also the lens had been abused in that there is a crack along the outer periphery. I bought it used quite a while ago and can't recall if I noticed the crack when it arrived.
Both the 'gunk' and the crack were/are not noticeable with the unaided eye but show up under a 6x dissecting scope.

I have just run another test with my Nikon M Plan objectives and will post the results as another topic.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

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Post by ChrisR »

I have a memory that someone, sometime, posted a good sharp picture with one of these, but I can't find it.
I did find this post:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 786#140786

Actually this isn't bad! Pre-gunk perhaps?
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 6521#56521
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NikonUser
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Post by NikonUser »

That moss leaf is somewhat 'fuzzy'; not crisp.
That fellow must have been a good practitioner (how come I can never find these posts?)
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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Chris S.
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Post by Chris S. »

ChrisR wrote:I have a memory that someone, sometime, posted a good sharp picture with one of these, but I can't find it.
Perhaps it was "Happy Halloween," by Dmillard?

One thing to bear in mind is that this objective--and all similar objectives, old and new--will show some diffraction. The 60x/0.70 delivers the equivalent of f/43. Comparatively, the modern Mitutoyo 50x/0.55 is f/45, and the Mitutoyo 100x/0.70 is f/71. I view these small f/stops--and the diffraction they bring--as the price we pay for operating in air and having enough working distance to handle non-flat subjects and reflected lighting.

Cheers,

--Chris

--edited typo
Last edited by Chris S. on Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ChrisR »

Exactly so. I have a 40x NA0.8 BD Planapo, eff f/25, but living with the WD is tricky at 0.7mm. Nothing 40x - 60x with a high NA is greater than about 1mm WD, I think.
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Post by NikonUser »

A little bit more experimenting with this objective on a full-frame Nikon D610.

Top: hind wing scales on one of our common Virgin Tiger Moth (Grammia virgo); pink colour is real but some flash reflection on the tips.
Middle: abdomen of a bluebottle fly (Family: Calliphoridae) one of the common blowflies, for orientation.
Bottom: image of what I thought were small hairs are actually spirally-grooved setae. Much of the lower cuticle is showing through the setae,
should have been retouched in ZS.

This is the highest magnification I have for non-microscope use. Quite difficult to use, even though designated as ELWD, with a WD of 4.9 mm lighting the subject is a problem.

Nikon also have a 100x ELWD with a 2.0 mm WD; I would find this impossible to use. Their 100x SLWD, WD 4.7mm, is possibly useable but the NA is 0.75 only marginally better than the ELWD 60x at 0.70.

Image
Image
Image
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
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GemBro
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Post by GemBro »

Looks like I missed this thread ...

Thanks NU for the post ... good to know about the Nikon equivalent ... I must say, although you talk about the problems of using this 60x with a small WD, the shots do look good though (to me anyhow, as I have nothing here in the office to compare with) ... but especially the last set and the spirally-grooved setae ... the fact you have the grooves in focus and detailed seems ok for a cheap solution? ...

Looking at your Mar 18 2010 images they seem probably good enough for my next project Diatoms ...

How much did you guys pay for one of these? ... I understand lighting will be crucial at this Mag and WD? ... more so than what we use for 10x ...

As I said I would be using these Objs (at this Mag) for slide work and could get away with the WD and if really pushed probably go through the 'hassle' of setting up staged specimens for close-ups like your blowfly ...
Canon 550D(T2i) ML (Nightly Builds) | Canon 5D MKII | Raynox 250 | Palinar 35mm f2.8 (reversed) | EL-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 N | EL-Nikkor 50mm f4 N | EL-Nikkor 50mm f4 | Bellows | Objectives: LOMO 3.7x 0.11 : 8x 0.20 : 40x 0.65
RiG II - 'Bamboo': Olympus CH Focus Block with Inverted Arca/Swiss | Canon 430 EX (x2) | Olympus T20 flash (x2) | Youngnuo YN-622C Wireless triggers (x3) | Ikea Jansjo 3W LED Lighting (x3)
Stepper Motor Focusing System (Helicon Remote)
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Post by NikonUser »

GemBro, this is a M Plan to be used without a coverslip.

I likely paid something like $2-300.00 (I forget)
The 1993 list price was an horrendous $2,292.00 (makes today's Mitty's seem a bargain)
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

NikonUser,

Those are superb images!! The detail and color are stunning!! I have yet to move past 10X, so this is a real treat to see such quality at these higher magnifications.

I noted you use a D610, do you have any issues with it missing a remote trigger now and then? My D800 and D800E both do this more often than I like.

Best,

Mike
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Post by NikonUser »

Thanks Mike.

No issues using remote. I use 1 or more external wireless flashes with the camera's built-in flash as the master controller.
I double click the remote: 1st click raises the mirror, 2nd opens the shutter and fires the flash(es). So far has worked flawlessly.

My earlier D610 was faulty in this regard; remote would rarely work, maybe get one exposure and then not function. Remote flashes could be used only with a SU-800 as the controller.

I recall a comment on Nikon Rumors about the D800 failing to to respond to the remote trigger with flash.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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BugEZ
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Post by BugEZ »

Photos awesome as usual NikonUser! I especially like the bluebottle fly.

NikonUser wrote:
what I thought were small hairs are actually spirally-grooved setae.
I had not realized the distinction between setae and hair. I did some ineffective snooping on the internet so I wonder if you could fill me in. A promising internet article titled "'Hairy' Insects and Spiders -Spurs, Spines, Setae, and Sensilla" didn't help very much.

Thanks!

Keith
Aloha
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Post by NikonUser »

I guess there is no difference between hairs and setae.
Wikipedia:
Setae in entomology are often called hairs or chaetae.
They are unicellular and formed by the outgrowth of a single epidermal cell (trichogen).
They are generally hollow and project through a secondary or accessory (tormogen) cell as it develops.
The setal membrane is not cuticularized and movement is possible. This serves to protect the body.

I call those obvious large bristles seen on fly faces and on the abdomen of many flies, especially tachinids, setae. They are stiff, often with spiral grooves, and surrounded at the body cuticle by a flexible membrane; also likely to be innervated.

Hairs are much finer and show up as a pruinescence, or pollinosity, on the body surface; often seen on wing membranes and fly faces.

The body hairs on this bluebottle seemed small with the unaided eye compared to the obvious large bristles at the posterior end of seg. 3 in the above image.
I was surprised to see their spiral grooving when imaged with the 60x obj.

EDIT: I was checking BugGuide to get an ID on a tachinid fly, genus Phasia, when I saw this in the remarks:
Detailed dorsal and frontal images of head (with enough resolution to discern presence or absence of hair...not just bristles) should allow for ID to species complex.
It seems I am not the only one to distinguish between hairs and bristles (=setae)
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
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