New to me Zeiss Standard

75RR · Post by **75RR** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:38 am

Will take a deep breadth and ponder things to see how to proceed or even if I do so.
In the meantime anyone have the service manual for this. As in how to take it apart and lubricate, and what to lubricate it with etc ...
Someone suggested it might be a Zeiss Standard RA
This is the only Logo/writing on it

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:24 am

Hi,

Yes, it looks like a Standard RA (about 1960s), the variant with a fixed 4- or 5-position nosepiece.

I don't have a service manual, but a broschure for the RA (unfortunately in German)
http://www.mikroskop-online.de/Mikrosko ... roskop.pdf

and a user manual for the simpler Standard 14/16 models, which have a lot in common with the RA, except for example the illumination
http://www.frankshospitalworkshop.com/e ... Manual.pdf

This broschure shows some of the earlier models from the 1950s, but it's still a useful read generally.
http://www.science-info.net/docs/zeiss/ ... inning.PDF

As for servicing/lumbricating, only do this if absolutely necessary. It's easy to damage, break or mis-align components.

75RR · Post by **75RR** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:33 am

Yes, it looks like a Standard RA (about 1960s), the variant with a fixed 4- or 5-position nosepiece.

4 position. Fixed is the nosepiece type I imagine. It looks as if it is replaceable.

As for servicing/lumbricating, only do this if absolutely necessary. It's easy to damage, break or mis-align components ...

Good point.

...(for example, did you mark the position of the Diaphragm insert before you took it out?)

Did not know I had to. Why is that? Is it to align the mirror at right-angle to the light source?

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:22 am

75RR wrote: 4 position. Fixed is the nosepiece type I imagine. It looks as if it is replaceable.
...(for example, did you mark the position of the Diaphragm insert before you took it out?)
Did not know I had to. Why is that? Is it to align the mirror at right-angle to the light source?

- Yes, The nosepiece and its nosepiece holder (the microscope head) is replaceable, I did it recently to convert my Standard 16 to Standard 18, ie with a dovetail changeable nosepiece, but I don't recommend doing it yourself: to mount it at the right position mantaining both paralelism and centering was really painful, after a whole afternoon mounting and testing I finally got it right just when I was close to abandon, clearly something to be done at the factory with dedicated tools, not at home.(*)

- I've mounted and dismounted the mirror/diaphragm unit several times with no problem. It fits at its place with just a bit of play to adjust.

(*) if against my advice you want to do it in the future, I have the needed spare parts

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:36 pm

75RR wrote:4 position. Fixed is the nosepiece type I imagine. It looks as if it is replaceable.

Hi Glen,

As Pau said, the nosepiece/tube head was not designed to be exchanged by the user. Best to leave it as it is.

The Standard is a precision instrument that cost thousands of pounds at the time. Much of that efford went into making sure that all the components are precisely aligned along the optical axis. So only the components designed to be changed by the user (like tubes, objectives, stages, condensers) should be changed, others that are fixed (like the tube head, fixed nosepieces, illumination train) shouldn't be touched. To re-align them along the optical axis requires skill and specialised tools.

In the newer Zeiss microscopes, many screws have been locked in place to prevent the loss of alignment (there's advantages and dis-advantages to this; you would probably still have an iris in the diaphragm insert if it had been locked). If you do repairs on those parts, this should be the last resort rather than trying to make "improvements".

75RR wrote:Why is that? Is it to align the mirror at right-angle to the light source?

It's prudent to always mark the original positions before you remove parts, in case they had been pre-aligned by the factory. In your case it doesn't matter any more, since somebody had already removed the insert before, so what ever alignment there used to be, it's gone.

75RR · Post by **75RR** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:49 am

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
75RR wrote:Does one need (forward/backward) movement in order to focus with a led light?
Yes. That's provided by screw 1 (M5; 4-stared grip)

There are a lot of LED replacement ideas and LED power supplies on the internet. It's a project rather than a quick fix.

All the replacement requires in terms of Koehler illumination is placing the LED in exactly the same position as the original lamp filament, and having a single-chip LED with a sufficiently large chip. Maybe someone in the forum with experience can make a recommendation?

As for the aluminium rod, here is one suggestion (no guarantees):

Take an aluminium rod, 20 mm diameter, 120 mm long.

Get a workshop to cut an M19 thread around the outside of the bottom 50 mm of the 120 mm rod. The bottom of the rod will now fit through the hole in the lamp socket (20 mm diameter).

Use two M19 counter nuts (either side of the lamp socket) to fix the rod in the illuminator. The thread is 50 mm long, so you'll have room to find the right position.

Get a single-chip LED on a star platine, solder on wires, and glue the LED to the flat top of the aluminium rod using thermal conduction glue.

Connect the wires to a suitable power source.

Scetch (not drawn to scale)

Hi Ichthy,
question on your rod design.
Is there one hole that runs right through the rod in order to feed the wires through or is it two parallel ones. Thinking here of the thermal glue connection. Would computer (cpu) thermal paste do?

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:34 am

Hi Glen,

I did simplify the design a bit to make it easier to build. I thought you could just feed the wires out of the side of the lamp housing.

However, if you want you can make it more sophisticated:

The screws (red) hold the LED in place. Then have a central bore almost through the whole rod (light blue) and two bores coming from the side to feed in the wires!

Don't know about which thermal paste to use; products from "Arctic Silver" are quite popular for LED lights.

Regards, Ichthy

75RR · Post by **75RR** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:46 pm

Hi Ichthy,
Thanks for your reply. In the photos from one of the links you posted (http://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index.p ... 7#msg87457) the rods seem to have a central or parallel holes through it, did that limit heat dissipation?
Are they yours or someone you know?
Would like some feed back from someone actually using one, in terms of which led to get and wiring diagram + general comments. Thanks

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:28 pm

Hi,

The ones in the picture have a cental bore and the two short side-bores like I drew in the scetch above. There are also two screws in the back (unknown function). The central hole doesn't interfere with heat dissipation (as long as it doesn't go all the way through; the front of the rod has to be flat for maximum heat transfer from the LED.

They are not mine but I have one that looks exactly like this (for Standard 14 microscope with the small illumination tube 46 70 40). It replaces the Zeiss Illuminator 15 W.

The LED is the Cree XM-L U2 on copper PCB run at about 2 W. It's too bright for normal microscopy (more suitable to phase contrast, which needs lots of light). You might have to use a neutral grey filter to reduce brightness.

Two possible problems:
1) The chip of the XM-L is a bit smaller than the light filament of the original light bulb in the Illuminator 60.
2) The LED is difficult to dim down to low brightness [ anybody got an idea for a suitable LED dimmer? ]

Regards, Ichthy

75RR · Post by **75RR** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:57 pm

Since I am going to have a cube based trinocular which splits the light 50/50 a strong light is something I will need.

[ anybody got an idea for a suitable LED dimmer? ]

Was thinking of adapting an Adjustable Ring Light Illuminator Lamp, that is using the transformer and dimmer, ignoring the rest.
Not sure how to do that, but must be possible.

See:http://www.ebay.com/itm/60LED-Adjustabl ... 2a4698df69

75RR · Post by **75RR** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:37 pm

Getting a "new one" sounds easy, but there were two common versions (there were in fact even more), 46 70 57 (for Phomi III and Universal) and 46 70 58 (that's the one you want; for Standard) which differ in their collector lenses (again the reason is the difference in the size of the bases of the different models) but the number is rarely written on the Diaphragm insert unit. So you either have to ask the seller where the Diaphragm insert came from, or feel lucky, or transplant the iris into your old insert.

Got this reply: "It does not have a part number but it will fit the Zeiss standard 14 to 18 and the WL size"

from this ebay link:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-Micr ... TQ:US:1123

Have asked for the diameter, it should be 54mm. Awaiting reply.
If he confirms would this be ok?

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:29 pm

Hi, I sent you a private message.

g4lab · Post by **g4lab** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:37 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231373408190?ss ... 1555.l2649

I have this similar item up for auction at this time. It is later than the one pictured above and consequently has more plastic. It does have a plastic slide that a lamp holder can be mounted to and slide back and forth to focus the lamp. I don't have the lamp holder. Zeiss new spare part. old stock.

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:49 am

g4lab wrote:http://www.ebay.com/itm/231373408190?ss ... 1555.l2649

I have this similar item up for auction at this time. It is later than the one pictured above and consequently has more plastic. It does have a plastic slide that a lamp holder can be mounted to and slide back and forth to focus the lamp. I don't have the lamp holder. Zeiss new spare part. old stock.

This one is to mount a 10W 6V halogen lamp, not to use with your 60 lamp house.

75RR · Post by **75RR** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:07 am

This one is to mount a 10W 6V halogen lamp, not to use with your 60 lamp house.

Thanks Pau