Mitutoyo (Copy?) with red lettering

jazzper · Post by **jazzper** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:02 am

Currently this Mitu is for sale on ebay: 261270224798
Does anyone know where it fits in the Mitutoyo line up?
I am thinking about the "M Plan Apo" written in red and the funny "hood" like black ring at the front end.

Edit AdminCR - it doesn't say Mitutoyo on it, that I can see.

Chris S. · Post by **Chris S.** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:17 pm

jazzper wrote:Currently this Mitu is for sale on ebay: 261270224798
Does anyone know where it fits in the Mitutoyo line up?
I am thinking about the "M Plan Apo" written in red and the funny "hood" like black ring at the front end.

Regarding the red color of the "M Plan Apo" lettering, I wouldn't let it affect a buying decision. I've tested a number of Mitutoyo lenses, and a small number were labeled in paint that was not black. If memory serves--which it well may not, since I was checking optical performance, not cosmetics--the paint, when not black, matched the color of the painted ring. This makes sense, since the color of this ring is a widely-understood indicator of lens magnification. And with some Mitutoyo lenses (the one pictured appears to be one of them), the ring is not engraved, but the words in color are. Paint on the surface of the barrel can wear off pretty easily, over time, but paint recessed down into an engraved letter is more durable. So color-coding those words is a nice touch.

I've seen enough Mitty lenses to know that how they paint the identifying words/numbers, and which features they choose to engrave, has changed over time, without any associated optical differences that I've been able to identify. I have no real idea when a particular approach was used.

Mitutoyo certainly makes some objectives that have much more dramatic cosmetic differences than shown here, and those differences can indicate that the lens is for UV or NUV, or has some other significant optical distinction. The lens you pointed to does not look like any of these that I know.

The black "hood" is interesting, and I have not seen a Mitty fitted with anything like it. My first thought is that it might be intended for blocking stray light that could cause flare. My second--and probably wrong--thought is that it looks a bit like the attachments I've seen in pictures of Nikon 4x "dipping lenses," in which the hood-like portion could be immersed in water for taking pictures of subjects in vessels of shallow water.

One wonders if this black "hood" is a friction-fit item that is easily put on and taken off, or if it is more permanently attached to the objective. It would be an interesting lens to test.

That shipping charge (listed at $43.05 from the seller's USA location to my USA location) seems very high. Such an objective would often ship, within the USA, for under $10. And the listing says that shipping is not refundable, unless the item is not as described. Hmm.

--Chris

jazzper · Post by **jazzper** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:12 am

Thanks a lot Chris.

Everything you say makes sense to me. The red lettering most likely is only a design feature, albeit a very nice one, and the "hood" thing probably comes off. However, like you, I also noticed the "no return" option and that, combined with the "normal" asking price and the steep shipping price, is enough to throw me off.

I'll keep looking!

Eddie · Post by **Eddie** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:51 am

I got the shipping changed for you. Now it only costs $6.15.

All I had to do was contact the seller...
Enjoy!

Also, the black 'cap' looks like it is screwed on. You can tell by the two circular indents opposite each other on the face and it's not probably for any type of immersion as it doesn't look water tight... fluid would readily leak in through capillary action.

The seller also does offer a "Make Offer".

jazzper · Post by **jazzper** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:06 pm

Haha, thanks Eddie!
If he'll ship to Denmark, i'll make him an offer!
Otherwise there are other options, like a Nikon LU Fluor 5x 0.15, so lets see....

Chris S. · Post by **Chris S.** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:34 pm

A bit of searching brings up additional red-lettered examples of quite normal looking Mitutoyo M Plan Apo objectives lenses for sale. Here is a 10x/0.28 on eBay--showing red lettering and a black tip. Being a 10x, the color band is yellow, so the red lettering would not be indicative of magnification. And in this case, the black tip is pretty clearly part of the barrel design.

Lightglass Optics shows a couple of additional samples: a 20x/0.42, which also shows a black tip, and a 2x/0.55.

After seeing these pictures of other red-lettered, sometimes-black-tipped Mitutoyo objectives, I get a new perspective on the 5x/0.14 that Jazzper asked about. I think that its black tip is simply the end of the objective's barrel, no more and no less. The initial picture makes the black tip look longer and skinnier than it really is because it was taken with the front of the objective much closer to the lens than the back back of the objective. Take a similar picture of a person's face, and it will make his nose look like Pinocchio campaigning for elective office. Note that the tip appears more normal in the eBay listing's later images. (One can see dramatic examples of the effect by searching on "wide angle distortion," though this term can be misleading.)

It might be worth repeating that it is not a good idea to purchase a second-hand objective unless you can test it against a known benchmark, and return it if unsatisfactory. I recently tested an objective that looked like new but surprisingly, did not perform well. I doubt that most people would see the deficiency by looking through the lens on a microscope, unless they had an exceedingly practiced eye and excellent visual memory. But when comparing photographs taken with this lens against identical photographs taken with a known good lens, the shortcomings were notable.

--Chris

jazzper · Post by **jazzper** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:34 pm

Chris

You are probably right that one have to be careful when buying second hand, but the retail prices of these objectives are far more than I can justify to spend so really it's my only option.

Regarding the black nose tip, I have to disagree with you. To me it is perfectly clear that is is different from the more "normal" objectives and furthermore it is placed kind of "on top" of the metal housing having the same outside diameter.
Funny enough, if you compare the red letter 10x objective you link to here, 110947701755 with an ordinary black letter version like this, 110947700572, you can see the excact same difference in construction.
(By the way, notice the price difference between those two: 1500$ and 1100$ respectively hmmmm...)

I think I'll let it pass!

jazzper · Post by **jazzper** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:20 pm

Here comes another update on an old post!

When suddenly the price on this objective got lowered to a little more than 200 $ I couldn't resist it any more. I bought it.

Here is a shot showing the funny hood-like front thing:

And unscrewed:

Here is a shot from below. The first lens is situated halfway up the body. Is that normal?

And finally a test shot of an old grashopper wing. It has got a lot of debris but that actually has got more definition than the wing itself:

Link to the original image:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/246 ... Random.jpg

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:03 pm

That's very interesting. The diameter of the front element appears smaller than my ordinary M Plan Apo 5X. Mine is about 19 mm. What is the diameter of yours, and what working distance does it have?

--Rik

Blame · Post by **Blame** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:24 pm

Very odd. I could imagine it being a different specification lens but without any change of identification?

Could it be another lens in a Mitutoyo body?

Some sort of prototype?

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:58 pm

jazzper wrote:The first lens is situated halfway up the body. Is that normal?

Sorry, I missed this earlier. In my "ordinary" Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 5X / 0.14, the first lens is situated only about 7 mm in front of the back of the threads.

Link to the original image:

Seems like it's giving you a good image -- sharp corner to corner.

--Rik

jazzper · Post by **jazzper** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:52 pm

The diameter of the front element is 14 mm and the working distance is ca. 34 mm.

When I was measuring this I mounted it on the camera in order to measure the working distance without the front ring, which resulted in the whole thing coming apart

It turns out that there are 4 individual groups of lenses in metal housings lying loose in the outer housing held in place only by the front ring - interesting!

So a totally different construction all together than the more common and probably newer objectives without the red lettering.

I managed to assemble the whole thing and tomorrow I'll take a picture of the puzzle for you all to behold

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:07 pm

Dismounting the lens doesn't seem a good idea. Good luck.

jazzper · Post by **jazzper** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:24 pm

Well, it doesn't seem to a big deal. The lens elements are all cemented in 4 different keepers, so you just have to get the order and the direction right.
Anyway, I got the whole thing together again, no problem at all.

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:37 pm

I hate to give bad news, and hope that this doesn't apply to your case, but take a look at:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=20548

Mitutoyo (Copy?) with red lettering

Mitutoyo (Copy?) with red lettering

Re: Mitu with red lettering