Hi all,
I am planning to rebuild and lube all the mechanicals of a Labophot2. The intention is to increase the servicing interval and prevent the plastic drive gear shearing, by using quality lubricants. I just received a copy of the repair manual ( thanks Chris S!), and have compiled a list.
according to the manual I need the following Nikon supplies.
G201
G207
G7920
G7826
L3047
A 60 amp plasma cutter, a 3 pound sledge and either mule team or a particle accelerator.
I have been digging around to figure out which NYE products I can substitute, and I read a great post by Choronzon, that explained the L3047 and 7920, but I still have a couple questions for anyone who has used the above Nikon Greases/Oil.
This is where my understanding is at the moment.
G201
G207 - petroleum based grease, Likely higher viscosity than G201?
G7920- mid weight grease
G7826
L3047-Silicone based, Vhigh viscosity oil
The question.
Are any of the above Nikon products DAMPING greases? If so, how thick?
For simplicity I will likely use all PFPE lubes for durability, plastic compatibility, and next to no out-gassing. The issue is how much damping do I need for the stage, and where would I put it.
Thanks in advance!
S
Greases for rebuild, Nikon Labaphot 2
Moderators: Chris S., Pau, Beatsy, rjlittlefield, ChrisR
Regardless of the fact that Nikon uses them unless you manage to obtain the exact Nikon product and use it exactly the way Nikon specifies I generally advise people to stay away from any silicone based oils or greases, where either optics or paint is involved. They are great diffusion pump oils and lubricants for high temperatures and maybe outer space use. But many of them do like to form monolayers that seem to have an uncanny ability to travel and get into lenses and delaminate them. Also paint shops forbid silicone containing products too because they cause all kinds of paint sticking problems. That of course is not our concern here.
They are more stable in air and more vigorous conditions than straight carbon based lubricants. So are many teflon based lubricants which is what I try to use whenever possible. These are very stable in air and long lasting. Most of the ones I have seen and used are a bit lighter and thinner than "damping greases" (ie. less viscosity and also less stickiness)
They don't have the soaps in them that oil based greases have. These soaps are what eventually cause corrosion on sliding ways and cement them together requiring the tools you mentioned in your post. If you stick with teflons, and full synthetic greases (and silicones too but keep them far away from the optics and make sure they aren't bleeding or exuding , or better yet use them on something else) You won't need those tools.
The amount of shear resistance that dried and deteriorated grease can generate is impressive. Especially if it has solidified in a very well done and tight tolerance sliding joint.
I recently had occasion to be servicing a pair of Wild M5 (made in 1966) microscopes both of which had problems with their focusing mounts. They were hand fitted so my first attempt at merely switching scopes without keeping the pairs of dovetails together as manufactured was a hopeless failure.
One of the scopes was frozen solid focusing rack wise. There other had its rack and pinion trashed and ground up but would move.
In order to free the frozen one I had to block one side of the focuser in a large heavy machinists vise with thin wood slats to protect the paint. The other part was pounded on by a stick of wood driven by a three pound dead blow hammer. (yes I had used a week of WD-40. It never goes in when brass and grease merge) I hit it harder and harder until I was able to slowly tap the one side out. With an assistant professor there to catch it when it broke completely free. THEN I got the grease off with solvents.
And regreased it with teflon. No marks on the paint either. I managed to achieve my objective of only one of the two going to surplus in unusable condition.
The one we kept works amazingly well considering how old it is. M5 scopes are a bit hyperstereoscopic.
They are more stable in air and more vigorous conditions than straight carbon based lubricants. So are many teflon based lubricants which is what I try to use whenever possible. These are very stable in air and long lasting. Most of the ones I have seen and used are a bit lighter and thinner than "damping greases" (ie. less viscosity and also less stickiness)
They don't have the soaps in them that oil based greases have. These soaps are what eventually cause corrosion on sliding ways and cement them together requiring the tools you mentioned in your post. If you stick with teflons, and full synthetic greases (and silicones too but keep them far away from the optics and make sure they aren't bleeding or exuding , or better yet use them on something else) You won't need those tools.
The amount of shear resistance that dried and deteriorated grease can generate is impressive. Especially if it has solidified in a very well done and tight tolerance sliding joint.
I recently had occasion to be servicing a pair of Wild M5 (made in 1966) microscopes both of which had problems with their focusing mounts. They were hand fitted so my first attempt at merely switching scopes without keeping the pairs of dovetails together as manufactured was a hopeless failure.
One of the scopes was frozen solid focusing rack wise. There other had its rack and pinion trashed and ground up but would move.
In order to free the frozen one I had to block one side of the focuser in a large heavy machinists vise with thin wood slats to protect the paint. The other part was pounded on by a stick of wood driven by a three pound dead blow hammer. (yes I had used a week of WD-40. It never goes in when brass and grease merge) I hit it harder and harder until I was able to slowly tap the one side out. With an assistant professor there to catch it when it broke completely free. THEN I got the grease off with solvents.
And regreased it with teflon. No marks on the paint either. I managed to achieve my objective of only one of the two going to surplus in unusable condition.
The one we kept works amazingly well considering how old it is. M5 scopes are a bit hyperstereoscopic.
Thanks for the reply g4lab.
Very good points.
I will not be putting any silicone containing greases on this scope, or anything else optical.
I am leaning towards PFPE base stock grease and PFPE oil as it is pretty much universally compatible with any material ( that isn't a Fluoroelastomer) and it is very non reactive to oxygen. The greasing gellant in it is PTFE, not soap, so it should have very good long term durability.
NYE has a damping grease kit with a viscosity selection that I can use for the focus mechanism and gear train, and KRYTOX (maybe GPL 203 which is SAE 30wt based, or lighter) will be used on the rollers, retainers and mechanical slide sections of the stage.
The Manual specifies 100-130grams of force to move the stage.
I think the scope is designed to have the stage move quite easily and the "sticktion" from the Damping grease in the focus mechanism prevents creep. This would cause the lowest possible stress on the infamous plastic pinion.
I can trial and error the right amount of "damping" with the grease kit. I'm just looking to save myself a rebuild (or five), by asking if anyone is familiar with the damping and or viscosities of the Nikon greases and oils quoted above.
Any sort of a starting point would be immensely helpful.
Cheers
S
Very good points.
I will not be putting any silicone containing greases on this scope, or anything else optical.
I am leaning towards PFPE base stock grease and PFPE oil as it is pretty much universally compatible with any material ( that isn't a Fluoroelastomer) and it is very non reactive to oxygen. The greasing gellant in it is PTFE, not soap, so it should have very good long term durability.
NYE has a damping grease kit with a viscosity selection that I can use for the focus mechanism and gear train, and KRYTOX (maybe GPL 203 which is SAE 30wt based, or lighter) will be used on the rollers, retainers and mechanical slide sections of the stage.
The Manual specifies 100-130grams of force to move the stage.
I think the scope is designed to have the stage move quite easily and the "sticktion" from the Damping grease in the focus mechanism prevents creep. This would cause the lowest possible stress on the infamous plastic pinion.
I can trial and error the right amount of "damping" with the grease kit. I'm just looking to save myself a rebuild (or five), by asking if anyone is familiar with the damping and or viscosities of the Nikon greases and oils quoted above.
Any sort of a starting point would be immensely helpful.
Cheers
S
I like and have used Krytox greases too. They also don't outgas much. The particular formulation I had an example of was pretty stiff and not terribly "lubricious" But is is said to be stable under more vigorous conditions than I am ever likely to expose it to.
All the fluorintated products (which Krytox is )resist atmospheric O2 better than carbon based products.
You mention Nye lubricants. That company started out making watch oils from whale oil. Whale oil is quite stable, does not outgas nor polymerize very easily. Apparently one of the substitutes for it if one does not want to contribute to the demand to restart whaling is jojoba oil. I have not experimented with this yet.
All the fluorintated products (which Krytox is )resist atmospheric O2 better than carbon based products.
You mention Nye lubricants. That company started out making watch oils from whale oil. Whale oil is quite stable, does not outgas nor polymerize very easily. Apparently one of the substitutes for it if one does not want to contribute to the demand to restart whaling is jojoba oil. I have not experimented with this yet.