Copy Stand Style Film Scanner

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Peter De Smidt
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Copy Stand Style Film Scanner

Post by Peter De Smidt »

Hi,

A group of photographers and I are trying to design a film scanner. Ideally, we'd like to come up with an open source "how to" article that would allow someone to build the scanner themselves. We're interested in this approach for speed and quality reasons.

Right now, there's a huge gap between scanners like the Epson v700/v750 and professional scanners, and even those of us with professional scanner know that their time is limited. Mine, a Screen Cezanne, is about 10 years old, and service, if it's available at all, is extremely expensive.

With an Epson desktop scanner, most of us think that they only allow about a 4x enlargement with very good quality, while pro flatbeds and drum scanners allow significantly greater enlargements, and the drum scanners do a much better job with high density materials, such as Fuji Velvia. We think that a modified copy stand style system with a dslr might be a viable option.

The idea is to build a structure that holds a dslr pointing straight down, similar to a copy stand. Below the lens there would be a thick, and hopefully very flat, piece of water white glass. A light source would be placed under the glass, and a film holder of the glass sandwich type would sit on top of the glass, which could be slid on top of the glass by a computerized x-y positioning system. The camera would be tethered to a computer with live view, and that's how precise focus would be confirmed.

For quick scanning, the whole negative could "scanned" at once, using multiple exposures if needed for high density negatives. For higher resolution, multiple pictures could be taken, with the x-y system moving the holder on the glass plate, and these exposures could hopefully be stitched together to produce a high-res file.

We're hoping to make this affordable, say less than $2000 not counting the dslr, easy to build, easy to modify, e.g. different light sources, lenses...; and scalable, such that people with 8x10 or larger film could scan them.

I've done some fast tests with a light box, my PB-4 bellows, and an 80mm Rodagon with a fixed circular aperture of about f8.5. Here's the overall photograph, shot with a Toyo AX 4x5" on Fuji Acros with a 120mm Super Angulon. (I know it's not a very good photo.)

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I scanned the film with a Screen Cezanne at 2400 spi.
The scanned file could produce a 30x40" print at 300 dpi. (Actually the final shot is cropped in a bit, and so it'd be more like 26" x 40")

Using my very hodge-podge "scanning" setup, I got the following:
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This would produce a picture 8.5x11" at 300 dpi. On the negative the bible is about 5/8ths of an inch long.

Next is a crop of the adjusted Cezanne scan:

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Here is a close up of hodge-podge scan:
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And here is a closeup of the Cezanne scan:

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Next is a dynamic range test. I hope that's the right term. I was a liberal arts major:) I photographed a Stouffer 31 step step wedge on a Portatrace light box with a d200 and a 105mm Nikkor AF-D Micro lens. F-stop was f5. This is only meant to test how my equipment will see density with one exposure. The raw file was processed in Lightroom. All of the density/contrast settings were zero. I added what the eyedropper in Photoshop told me the LAB L channel values were and also visual density numbers from my x-rite densitometer.

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Next is 3 exposures, 1 stop apart. I used Photomatix's tone compressor to tone map the HDR file. Obviously, there's a lot of room for adjustment, and you can always take more exposures.

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The results seem encouraging.

One big question, and one I'm hoping you macro mavins can help with, is a choice of lens, hopefully not incredibly rare or more than, say, $1000.

Currently, I have a Micro Nikkor Auto P 55mm f3.5, various enlarging lenses, and a Nikkor 105mm Micro Nikkor 2.8D. So far, I've only tried the Rodagon, as I'm going to build a better support structure before doing any more tests.

Apparently, we need about 17 microns of depth of field, assuming a perfectly flat emulsion, but obviously even with a class carrier and plates we'll need a bit more. For high quality scan, we'd probably use the system at 1:1 or so. Going much higher would lead to an even crazier number of exposures that would need to be stitched, although I suppose some 35mm Tech Pan devotees might go up to 2:1.

In doing the tests, I learned that my PB-4 bellows doesn't like to be vertical. It works, but focusing is difficult. A lead-screw positioning system would probably be a better idea. I'm hoping that the 55mm Nikkor works out, as they are plentiful, inexpensive, and they go to 1:1 with their helical. Microscope objectives have been suggested, as well as apo macro nikkor, ultra-micro-nikkors, Luminars....but these either seem to be very hard to find, super expensive, or best at much greater magnifications than we need.

I would be grateful for any advice that you'd care to give.
Last edited by Peter De Smidt on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

Oops! I put this in the wrong forum. Sorry about that!

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Post by Pau »

This kind of device was invented long time ago, it's know as "slide copier" or "slide duplicator" and it was a very usual accesory for bellows or as stand alone device to mount in the filter thread of the lens.

If you have good macro lenses the best ones are those old devices. Now there is plenty of cheap models with built in lenses, but I don't rely in its quality.

A perfect lens designed to do this job is the "Apo Rodagon-D 75mm f4 1:1". It can be bought used for less than $200.

But how to automate vill be a different problem!
(perhaps the base may be a film camera with motor drive synchronized?)

A dedicated film scanner with ICE cube is superior handling the film grain, dust and scratches, but with a good lens and DSLR camera the resolution wil be very close.

A flash in face of its difusser would be convenient, but a desktop lamp if you correct the color temperature will do the job.
Pau

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

Here is a test bed I built very quickly yesterday:

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rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Oops! I put this in the wrong forum. Sorry about that!
No problem, I just moved it to Equipment.

This setup should work fine. Depending on what lens you're using, curvature of field may be a slight issue. A simple cure for that is to focus stack a few frames, maybe just 2 or 3, depending on how bad. That's the method I use now to scan old cardboard-mount slides, where the film inevitably curls a bit, and differently from slide to slide. The result is far sharper than the best I could ever get from a $1000 dedicated scanner doing the best it could with a single focus.

--Rik

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

Hi Rik,

Thank you for moving this to the right forum. I must've become a little disoriented by immersing myself in online info about macro lenses for a few days. :shock:

Thank you for the tip about focus stacking. I"ll certainly check it out.

I have a couple of basic macro questions.

1. It's best to keep the lens still and move the camera body to focus, since otherwise you'll change the magnification, right?

2. While the effective aperture is what matters for sensor illumination (along with the durations of the illumination), does a smaller effective aperture minimize lens aberrations, as it would with stopping down the aperture?

3. At one-to-one, how fine should the focus mechanism be? Is the helical on a macro lens like my 55mm Nikkor fine enough?

Thanks!

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Post by rjlittlefield »

Peter De Smidt wrote:1. It's best to keep the lens still and move the camera body to focus, since otherwise you'll change the magnification, right?
Moving the camera is good. So are most of the other methods. The only one that clearly does not work is to focus by changing lens extension around 1:1. In that case you end up changing magnification a lot and focus hardly at all. Right at 1:1, the change in focus is literally zero, despite that the magnification is changing quickly.

In general, magnification gets pretty messy to discuss. If you're shooting single frames, then it's easy to hold magnification constant -- just focus by changing the subject-to-lens distance. Focus stacking is more complicated. It turns out that in most setups, the effective magnification changes with focus no matter what you do. But those changes are handled automatically by focus stacking software. Side-by-side stitching software can also handle magnification changes with no problem, but probably you'll have to tell it to do so, by some trick like letting it tweak lens "focal length" on all except one frame.
2. While the effective aperture is what matters for sensor illumination (along with the durations of the illumination), does a smaller effective aperture minimize lens aberrations, as it would with stopping down the aperture?
I'm not sure what's being asked. For any particular lens and magnification, the nominal and effective apertures are proportional to each other. The only way to change the effective aperture is to stop down the actual aperture. Doing that will reduce some aberrations but not others, for example spherical aberration will be reduced but lateral chromatic aberration will not.
3. At one-to-one, how fine should the focus mechanism be? Is the helical on a macro lens like my 55mm Nikkor fine enough?
Yes, the helical will be fine enough though it may be a bit twitchy to adjust. If your lens includes a focus motor (intended for automatic focus), then quite likely you can control focus from a computer by using software like ControlMyNikon. Using this method allows you to easily make finer steps than you can get by turning the lens ring by hand.

--Rik

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

Thank you, Rik.

Regarding my aperture question, suppose we're talking about a 50mm lens focused at infinity. Through testing, it's discovered that the best quality is gotten at F4 on the aperture ring, mainly because the lens aberrations are minimized compared to having the lens open to a wider aperture. Now consider using the lens for a macro shot at 1:1. If the aperture is set on F4, the effective aperture will be F11, and diffraction will limit resolution, right? If so, does this mean that it would be better to open the lens up to more than F4, such that the effective aperture gets closer to the ideal aperture?

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Post by rjlittlefield »

You need to test separately, and be prepared to select different lenses for different tasks. Typically a lens that has been optimized to work at infinity is pretty bad at 1:1, and vice versa. Macro lenses are usually designed with movable elements to give good performance at all settings, but still there's no reason to think that the best apertures at infinity and at 1:1 will be the same or will have any particular relationship to each other.

On a related topic, it can be pretty hard to even know exactly what a particular aperture setting really means.

The classic formula is that f_effective = f_nominal * (magnification+1). (So nominal f/4 becomes effective f/8 at 1:1.)

But the formula assumes that the lens has pupil factor 1, is being focused only by extension, and that setting a particular f-number on the lens or camera causes the lens to have the same diameter aperture regardless of focus setting. For many lenses and cameras, none of those things are true. One important example is that on modern Nikon cameras and lenses, the f-number that you set on the camera is likely to be f_effective, already compensated for all those other factors. But stick on an old lens that the camera can't talk to, and suddenly the f-number you set (now on the lens ring) is back to being f_nominal, needing correction for magnification et.al.

Best approach is to skip the calculations and just run the experiment. Shoot a series of pictures at a range of apertures and also at a range of focus settings, then check to see what gets you the sharpest image at center, midway, and corner. Quite possibly you'll have to make some compromises, for example stopping down a little farther than best center sharpness in order to get the corners better, and perhaps focus stacking to compensate for curvature of field.

--Rik

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

Thanks Rik. Good advice!

I have been pretty happy with my micro-Nikkors at infinity, but I expect that rigorous testing would show differences. The same is true in large format, as there are a number of lenses designed for 1:1 that do very well at infinity, such as G-clarons, Ronars, Artars... In that case, though, it could be because one has to stop down so much with large format, often F32 or F45, and this patches over the differences.

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Post by Peter De Smidt »

On a tip, I bought one of the lenses seen in Ebay auction 220563494846. Apparently, these lenses were made by Rodenstock for use in Imacon scanners, and they're probably a fixed aperture version of a Rodagon D.

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There don't appear to be any threads on the back of the lens. On the front, there are female threads, approximately 31mm. Does anyone have suggestions as to the best way to mount these on a Nikon PB-4 bellows?

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Post by naturephoto1 »

Peter De Smidt wrote:On a tip, I bought one of the lenses seen in Ebay auction 220563494846. Apparently, these lenses were made by Rodenstock for use in Imacon scanners, and they're probably a fixed aperture version of a Rodagon D.

Image
Image
Image

There don't appear to be any threads on the back of the lens. On the front, there are female threads, approximately 31mm. Does anyone have suggestions as to the best way to mount these on a Nikon PB-4 bellows?
Peter,

It would not be surprising that the lens was made by Rodenstock. Rodenstock is owned by Linos and has been for a number of years.

Rich

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Post by dickb »

Peter De Smidt wrote:There don't appear to be any threads on the back of the lens. On the front, there are female threads, approximately 31mm. Does anyone have suggestions as to the best way to mount these on a Nikon PB-4 bellows?
What are the dimensions of the back of the lens? One way of attaching threadless lenses is using a T2-Nikon adapter. When you take out the inner ring of the adapter the inner diameter of the adapter may match one of the outer diameters of your lens. If you replace the three locking screws in the adapter with longer ones, you can secure the lens tightly into the adapter. You can use teflon tape to make the lens fit more snugly.

Alternatively, you can try mounting the lens reversed by getting a 30.5mm or 31mm (I don't if 31mm rings exist) to say 52mm step-up ring and a 52mm Nikon F reversing ring. Again, if the 30.5mm doesn't fit perfectly, teflon tape can help. If the lens is symmetrical then mounting it reversed shouldn't make any difference. If the lens isn't symmetrical, then you should test whether reverse or non-reverse mounting results in better pictures for your application.

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

Thanks for the suggestions. The 31mm measurement was obtained using a caliper to measure the diameter of the innermost edge of the threads. I'm not sure how to figure out the exact specifications of the threads without getting some adapters to see if they fit. It could very well be 30.5mm threads. I have emailed the manufacturer to see if they have any info.

The diameter of the smallest part on the back is 30mm. The main body is 40mm.

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Post by dickb »

Peter De Smidt wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. The 31mm measurement was obtained using a caliper to measure the diameter of the innermost edge of the threads. I'm not sure how to figure out the exact specifications of the threads without getting some adapters to see if they fit. It could very well be 30.5mm threads. I have emailed the manufacturer to see if they have any info.

The diameter of the smallest part on the back is 30mm. The main body is 40mm.
It is hard to find the correct size. I've got a step-up adapter marked 30.5 to 37 and its male threads measure 29.5mm at their innermost and 30.2 over the tops of the thread. The male threads on an m39 adapter measure 37.5mm as a minimum and 38.7 as a maximum, for an m42 it is 40.3 and 41.8. So I would say measuring the threads as you did underestimates the size by about 1 or 1.5 mm. That would make your lenses's thread size M32 or M32.5. Unfortunately this 0.5mm difference does matter. Also the speed of the thread is important. Most threads this size are 0.75mm, some however 0.5mm, i.e. the length of one turn of the thread is either 0.75 or 0.5mm long.

The diameter of the main body of the lens is smaller than I thought. My suggestion of removing the inner ring out of a T2 adapter won't work, but the inner diameter of that T2 ring is 41.0mm, so it still may work with a little tape.

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