Gear for higher magnification [help]

[Charles Krebs]

I have no idea about what focus steps are needed for 5X stacking, that's what I want to find out

Depends on the amount of diffraction that is "acceptable" and the aperture used. With the Canon MPE 65mm lens the following seems to work well for stacking (but always do some testing to establish your own acceptable values!):

At 5X with an APS-C sized sensor, at (nominal) f/2.8 your total depth-of-field (TDOF) will be in the range of 26 to 31 micron. (calculated using a circle-of-confusion from 0.019 to 0.026)

At 5X with an APS-C sized sensor, at (nominal) f/4 your total depth-of-field will be in the range of 36 to 50 micron.

At 5X with an APS-C sized sensor, at (nominal) f/5.6 your total depth-of-field will be in the range of 51 to 71 micron. (... but this is really too small an aperture for 5X)

At the lowest magnification of the Canon MPE, 1X, at f/8 your total depth-of-field will be in the range of 608 to 840 micron.

For stacking purposes you will want to move the camera/lens about 70-80% of the TDOF value between shots. The Velmex 2.5" version discussed above and shown here, has for me proven to be the nicest piece to use with 65MPE in the field. One "tick" mark on the dial shown is 17.6 micron. This is with the 20 TPI lead-screw. With the 40 TPI lead-screw the increments are cut in half (so 1 tick mark would be 8.8 micron). You can see that the movement of the Velmex is a pretty good "fit" for the Canon MPE magnification range, or just about any setup that takes you to about 5X or so.

The 20 TPI is easily usable by hand to at least 5X, the 40 TPI could be used up to around 10X with no difficulty.

The 20 TPI thread is very usable with lower magnifications as well, so I find it nice to use with the 100mm macro lens as well. The crank handle, when outfitted with an easily readable large dial is wonderful to use. (The 40 TPI thread can require a little too much "cranking" if you do work a great deal at lower magnifications).

To make it practical for field use you really need to have something like the long A/S plate underneath (with an A/S clamp on your tripod head). Not absolutely necessary, but it makes "roughing in" the focus much easier. (As I mention in the referenced post, be sure to use a plate/clamp combination that has the safety "stop" screws at the end of the plate... otherwise, sooner or later... )

Lastly, another thing that is nice is it's simplicity. I live in a place where photographing outside often means getting wet and muddy, The other rail I sometimes use would lose its smooth movement when it got wet or a little dirty. I appreciate the fact that the Velmex, (even though it looks as if it might be best used indoors) it is not fazed by the elements.

[sQVe]

If $238 and the size/bulk of the Velmex A2506B-S2.5 fits your needs, then also be sure to consider the StackShot automated rail. The screw mechanism is similar, but the motor drive on the StackShot goes down to nominally 1/3200 revolution. That makes it useful even at the 2 micron (0.002 mm) step size needed with higher power microscope objectives. See for example HERE and HERE. Hand feeding a screw thread like on the Velmex is OK at 5X, tedious at 10X, and unreliable at 20X. Note that recent versions of the StackShot controller provide full precision even when used by itself -- no need to drive it through the Zerene Stacker interface.

--Rik

Thank you for the info. I've read tons about StackShot - but it is a more expensive than ~$250. Especially if I want to use it in the field, because then I really do need the battery pack don't I?

Do you know if it would be an easy mount onto a Manfrotto 410 Junior head? If so it might be worth the money, because with the Velmex I would probably need to get alot of new gear to get it mounted. Plus I like things to be as hassle free as possible.

Am I understanding you correctly that I do not need the Zerene interface anymore to get more than a movement interval of 0.01 mm? According to the website it still is 0.01mm.

Thank you all by the way for all the informative posts. If your in the southern part of Sweden sometime - let me buy you a beer.

Cheers,
Oskar

[naturephoto1]

If $238 and the size/bulk of the Velmex A2506B-S2.5 fits your needs, then also be sure to consider the StackShot automated rail. The screw mechanism is similar, but the motor drive on the StackShot goes down to nominally 1/3200 revolution. That makes it useful even at the 2 micron (0.002 mm) step size needed with higher power microscope objectives. See for example HERE and HERE. Hand feeding a screw thread like on the Velmex is OK at 5X, tedious at 10X, and unreliable at 20X. Note that recent versions of the StackShot controller provide full precision even when used by itself -- no need to drive it through the Zerene Stacker interface.

--Rik

Thank you for the info. I've read tons about StackShot - but it is a more expensive than ~$250. Especially if I want to use it in the field, because then I really do need the battery pack don't I?

Do you know if it would be an easy mount onto a Manfrotto 410 Junior head? If so it might be worth the money, because with the Velmex I would probably need to get alot of new gear to get it mounted. Plus I like things to be as hassle free as possible.

Am I understanding you correctly that I do not need the Zerene interface anymore to get more than a movement interval of 0.01 mm? According to the website it still is 0.01mm.

Thank you all by the way for all the informative posts. If your in the southern part of Sweden sometime - let me buy you a beer.

Cheers,
Oskar

Oskar,

Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase. In the long term however, whatever you decide to purchase, your life, convenience, and speed of operation will be far better using an Arca Swiss QR system. With this system loading equipment will be surer, better locked, and unloading the gear will be quick and easy (using this system will tend to extend the life of your tripod threads and lessen the chance of cross threading of screws). This will apply to either the Velmex as well as the Stackshot, camera bodies, lenses, possibly flash units, etc.

Rich

[sQVe]

Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase. In the long term however, whatever you decide to purchase, your life, convenience, and speed of operation will be far better using an Arca Swiss QR system. With this system loading equipment will be surer, better locked, and unloading the gear will be quick and easy (using this system will tend to extend the life of your tripod threads and lessen the chance of cross threading of screws). This will apply to either the Velmex as well as the Stackshot, camera bodies, lenses, possibly flash units, etc.

Rich

Yes I know - I've looked at AS QR systems before. The problem for me tho is that gear for this system is quite hard to find here in Sweden. Also budget wise it isn't really on the top of the list. But in the future I will surely look into it - if it isn't needed sooner for StackShot or Velmex etc.

[naturephoto1]

Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase. In the long term however, whatever you decide to purchase, your life, convenience, and speed of operation will be far better using an Arca Swiss QR system. With this system loading equipment will be surer, better locked, and unloading the gear will be quick and easy (using this system will tend to extend the life of your tripod threads and lessen the chance of cross threading of screws). This will apply to either the Velmex as well as the Stackshot, camera bodies, lenses, possibly flash units, etc.

Rich

Yes I know - I've looked at AS QR systems before. The problem for me tho is that gear for this system is quite hard to find here in Sweden. Also budget wise it isn't really on the top of the list. But in the future I will surely look into it - if it isn't needed sooner for StackShot or Velmex etc.

Hi Oskar,

I understand. Equipment can be shipped to you; this is a cottage industry and most of us order parts sight unseen. There are QR clamps, plates available for specific cameras, lenses, etc.

Here are several sources to look at:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/Index.aspx?code=46&key=fr

http://www.kirkphoto.com/

http://store.promediagear.com/

http://stores.ebay.com/Hejnar-Photo

I hope this is of some help. Many of us on the forum will be more than happy to provide as much assistance as you feel that you need.

Rich

[rjlittlefield]

If $238 and the size/bulk of the Velmex A2506B-S2.5 fits your needs, then also be sure to consider the StackShot automated rail.

Thank you for the info. I've read tons about StackShot - but it is a more expensive than ~$250. Especially if I want to use it in the field, because then I really do need the battery pack don't I?

That's correct. I just guessed from your interest in the Velmex that your budget might be large enough to fit the StackShot. It definitely is more expensive.

Do you know if it would be an easy mount onto a Manfrotto 410 Junior head? If so it might be worth the money, because with the Velmex I would probably need to get alot of new gear to get it mounted. Plus I like things to be as hassle free as possible.

I do not have a Manfrotto 410 but I see from online descriptions that it has a proprietary mounting plate with both 1/4" and 3/8" screws. The baseplate of the StackShot comes tapped with both of those, so it seems pretty straightforward to mount as long as you're OK with a screw. (The base of the StackShot is also compatible with Arca Swiss, if you go that way.)

Am I understanding you correctly that I do not need the Zerene interface anymore to get more than a movement interval of 0.01 mm? According to the website it still is 0.01mm.

I think the website is not updated yet. The latest firmware provides 0.001 mm through the buttons.

Thank you all by the way for all the informative posts. If your in the southern part of Sweden sometime - let me buy you a beer.

You are welcome. I have never been to Sweden, so maybe it's time to go!

--Rik

[Craig Gerard]

Do you know if it would be an easy mount onto a Manfrotto 410 Junior head?

Here is one 'solution'. It converts the quick release mechanism of the Manfrotto 405/410 to an Arca Clamp mount. There are alternative revisions of this item designed to suit both the older and later release Manfotto 405/410

Rev 1:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330603073186

The same seller also has AS plates appropriate for attachment to the Velmex A2500 UniSlide. Basic requirements are a 7" plate for the base (with safety stops) and a 3.25" AS rail/plate (with safety stops) for the top mounting platform of the UniSlide. If using this (link below) AS plate for the top, the four existing threaded holes of the Velmex mounting platform can be used for attachment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230632326515

The base of the UniSlide would need to have two or three 1/4-20 holes tapped and drilled to accommodate the 'captive screws' associated with the AS plate.

The Velmex A2500 20tpi model number is A2506B-S2.5.

However, if not based in the US, purchasing a new UniSlide directly from Velmex can be rather expensive due to export fees and paperwork.

A few members are currently exploring alternative manual and automated rails, but it is too early at this point to reveal specific details.



Craig

*edit: adjusted minor details

[sQVe]

Hi Oskar,

I understand. Equipment can be shipped to you; this is a cottage industry and most of us order parts sight unseen. There are QR clamps, plates available for specific cameras, lenses, etc.

Here are several sources to look at:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/Index.aspx?code=46&key=fr

http://www.kirkphoto.com/

http://store.promediagear.com/

http://stores.ebay.com/Hejnar-Photo

I hope this is of some help. Many of us on the forum will be more than happy to provide as much assistance as you feel that you need.

Rich

Thank you for the links. Will surely be helpful in the future.

I do not have a Manfrotto 410 but I see from online descriptions that it has a proprietary mounting plate with both 1/4" and 3/8" screws. The baseplate of the StackShot comes tapped with both of those, so it seems pretty straightforward to mount as long as you're OK with a screw. (The base of the StackShot is also compatible with Arca Swiss, if you go that way.)

Thank you for clarifying this. I think I'm going to go ahead and buy the MP-E 65 and then probably buy StackShot when the wallet allows it.

Here is one 'solution'. It converts the quick release mechanism of the Manfrotto 405/410 to an Arca Clamp mount. There are alternative revisions of this item designed to suit both the older and later release Manfotto 405/410

Yes I saw this one too after one of naturephoto1's posts. Seems like a simple enough solution - but would it really be that much safer than just using the normal Manfrotto QR system? I read some posts that I found through Google that most of the adapters for 410 is a bit "wobbly".

My wallet would only allow me to buy an adapter/switch to Arca QR if it is really necessary. But isn't a 3/8" screw to mount StackShot on safe enough?

[naturephoto1]

Do you know if it would be an easy mount onto a Manfrotto 410 Junior head?

Here is one 'solution'. It converts the quick release mechanism of the Manfrotto 405/410 to an Arca Clamp mount. There are alternative revisions of this item designed to suit both the older and later release Manfotto 405/410

Rev 1:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330603073186

The same seller also has AS plates appropriate for attachment to the Velmex A2500 UniSlide. Basic requirements are a 6" plate for the base (with safety stops) and a 3.25" AS rail/plate (with safety stops) for the top mounting platform of the UniSlide. If using this (link below) AS plate for the top, the four existing threaded holes of the Velmex mounting platform can be used for attachment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230632326515

The base of the UniSlide would need to have two or three 1/4-20 holes tapped and drilled to accommodate the 6" AS plate.

The Velmex A2500 20tpi model number is A2506B-S2.5.

However, if not based in the US, purchasing a new UniSlide directly from Velmex can be rather expensive due to export fees and paperwork.

A few members are currently exploring alternative manual and automated rails, but it is too early at this point to reveal specific details.



Craig

I am not sure if it is any less expensive, but you may also be able to order a Unislide unit from; they make the Velmex unislides in the UK. I am just not sure if they can ship from the UK to Sweden and it would be any less expensive:

LG Motion Ltd
Unit 1A & 1B Telford Road
Houndmills Estate
Basingstoke, Hampshire. RG21 6YU
United Kingdom

Tel: 01256 365600
Fax: 01256 365645
http://www.lg-motion.co.uk/
E-Mail: sales@lg-motion.co.uk Contact: Gary Livingstone

Hi Oskar,

I understand. Equipment can be shipped to you; this is a cottage industry and most of us order parts sight unseen. There are QR clamps, plates available for specific cameras, lenses, etc.

Here are several sources to look at:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/Index.aspx?code=46&key=fr

http://www.kirkphoto.com/

http://store.promediagear.com/

http://stores.ebay.com/Hejnar-Photo

I hope this is of some help. Many of us on the forum will be more than happy to provide as much assistance as you feel that you need.

Rich

Thank you for the links. Will surely be helpful in the future.

I do not have a Manfrotto 410 but I see from online descriptions that it has a proprietary mounting plate with both 1/4" and 3/8" screws. The baseplate of the StackShot comes tapped with both of those, so it seems pretty straightforward to mount as long as you're OK with a screw. (The base of the StackShot is also compatible with Arca Swiss, if you go that way.)

Thank you for clarifying this. I think I'm going to go ahead and buy the MP-E 65 and then probably buy StackShot when the wallet allows it.

Here is one 'solution'. It converts the quick release mechanism of the Manfrotto 405/410 to an Arca Clamp mount. There are alternative revisions of this item designed to suit both the older and later release Manfotto 405/410

Yes I saw this one too after one of naturephoto1's posts. Seems like a simple enough solution - but would it really be that much safer than just using the normal Manfrotto QR system? I read some posts that I found through Google that most of the adapters for 410 is a bit "wobbly".

My wallet would only allow me to buy an adapter/switch to Arca QR if it is really necessary. But isn't a 3/8" screw to mount StackShot on safe enough?

I will let others comment regarding taking the Stackshot into the field. You will require the usage of a battery source unless they have come up with a good manual way to use the unit in the field without a battery source. Also, don't forget, for field usage, most of us don't go much if at all beyond 5X. 5X and up magnification is usually better done in the studio.

Rich

[rjlittlefield]

...taking the Stackshot into the field. You will require the usage of a battery source unless they have come up with a good manual way to use the unit in the field without a battery source. Also, don't forget, for field usage, most of us don't go much if at all beyond 5X. 5X and up magnification is usually better done in the studio.

StackShot has no way to manually turn the screw. (On my unit, the outboard end of the screw is buried in a partially exposed hex nut that appears to be a retainer, held in place by friction against a nylon insert.) If you're looking for a field rail, you'd be better off with the Velmex or similar.

--Rik

[Craig Gerard]

I like the 'large' dial on the Velmex A2500, especially when using Charlie's piechart ; but many other members use translations stages similar to this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120822256569
(good price but examine the shipping costs carefully....still looks like a bargain, so I purchased one)

A (correctly terminated) dual shaft Nema 17 (bipolar version I assume) may server as a replacement for the StackShot stepper motor, this would allow manual operation if a manual focus knob were attached to 'rear' shaft. The focus knob could only be used when no electrical power was applied to the stepper motor. I'm not sure how compatible, practical or precise such a configeration would be and at this stage the thought is merely a presumption.




Craig

[sQVe]

I like the 'large' dial on the Velmex A2500, especially when using Charlie's piechart ; but many other members use translations stages similar to this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120822256569
(good price but examine the shipping costs carefully....still looks like a bargain, so I purchased one)

Hi,

I looked at that too on eBay and it's interesting for sure. Just trying to wrap my head around how I would mount my camera on that thing.

eBay seems to not want me as a member either. They never send out my activation email - guess they are having technical difficulties at the moment.

I keep moving back and forth between the different suggestions you guys have given me. Can't really make up my mind - I do want something that it usable and pretty mobile thought to use on the field.

A linear stage seems to be the cheapest way to go, and pretty easy to get to Sweden via eBay.... hopefully I'll get my activation code pretty soon.

[ChrisRaper]

eBay seems to not want me as a member either. They never send out my activation email - guess they are having technical difficulties at the moment.

I would double-check that their automated emails aren't being swept up in the anti-spam filters - of your email reader or your provider's own spam filtering (if they do it). If you don't get an automated email within a few hours then try contacting eBay on their online live chat service so that you can chat with a tech in real time and they can send the email and you can check that you have got it while they wait

[sQVe]

Hi again,

I've done some more research on the AS QR Manfrotto adapters that Hejnar makes and they seem like really stable and good. I'm pretty sure that if I want a stable field system with a linear stage (or Velmex, StackShot etc) I would probably need to switch to a AS QR system.

As this is pretty new to me I would love some guidance. I've looked at these parts and would love some feedback if everything is compatible.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230694883666
Manfrotto 496RC2 Adapter

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230704008279
410 Junior Adapter

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330611095454 X 2
8.0 x 0.5 rail for AS QS. Mostly for mounting on for example a linear stage.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330644198511
3.25 clamp to have on the camera.

Is there any way go the my DIY flashbracket on this setup too? You can see it in the gallery URL below.. My guess is that I only need a long enough screw and bolt to mount it securly on the AS rail.

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/7015941/1/Gear?h=48bd46


Anyone have experiance with Hejnar 10" micro/focusing rail? It would be used on field with the MP-E 65
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230699068745

Cheers,
Oskar

[Craig Gerard]

Anyone have experiance with Hejnar 10" micro/focusing rail? http://www.ebay.com/itm/230699068745

Yes, but I found its performance to be be unacceptable and disappointing overall.

Hejnar Photo make some unique adapters and provide a good selection of rails, plates, AS clamps, etc, including custom orders. My most recent order (last week) amounted to approximately $200.00.

I would anticipate the other parts you've mentioned to perform as expected. As for your particular requirements, it would depend on the equipment you intend to use. We could offer more advice once you have decided on a particular focusing rail. Please see my private message.


Craig