Model HL150-BY
Are these quality products?
Thanks
Quality of this Illuminator
Moderators: Chris S., Pau, Beatsy, rjlittlefield, ChrisR
Quality of this Illuminator
I am interested in this illuminator from Amscope:
Model HL150-BY
Are these quality products?
Thanks
Model HL150-BY
Are these quality products?
Thanks
Danny B
On another forum I have seen posts where people have had bad luck with
inexpensive fiber optic illuminators. I don't know whether they were this model.
I have been using them and been a student of them for a long time.
I recommend FOSTEC (and Schott FOSTEC) if you live in the USA. A lot of these were sold and they are available and also many different types of
light guides are available. (that may or may not be of interest) FOSTEC stands for Fiber Optic Specialties which is what the company was originally called.
Like this one
Just search ebay for FOSTEC. Schott FOSTEC are the same,, Schott bought the company. Schott Illuminators are very high quality but always more expensive and much harder to find light guides inexpensively and the connection between the illuminator and guide is more expensive and robust and non substituteable. They are made in Germany and correspondingly more expensive and much less available on ebay.
There is a swiss maker Volpi whose products are swiss quality.
There is a Boston area maker Dolan Jenner also widely available and reasonably priced. They were probably the very first on the market back in the day.
There is also a US company called Chiu which has an illuminator called the Lumina. This was sold under many different liveries and there are two FOSTECs shown on ebay right now that are really Chiu's . Maybe Schott bought them too.
These things last a very long time. The only things that wear out are 1) the bulb. Higher color temp = shorter bulb life hours 2) the receptacle that the bulb plugs into is an expendable item. It needs to be replaced every X number of bulbs because the pins of the bulbs are so hot that they oxidize and draw the temper of the initially springey contacts. 3) The cooling fans have a tendency to wear out in thousands of hours of use. This is not as common as "2" and the fans are easy and cheap to replace.
A lamp head with an iris diaphragm is generally desireable but raises the price. So is DC regulation of the filament. For the latter FOSTEC has an optical feed back module.
inexpensive fiber optic illuminators. I don't know whether they were this model.
I have been using them and been a student of them for a long time.
I recommend FOSTEC (and Schott FOSTEC) if you live in the USA. A lot of these were sold and they are available and also many different types of
light guides are available. (that may or may not be of interest) FOSTEC stands for Fiber Optic Specialties which is what the company was originally called.
Like this one
Just search ebay for FOSTEC. Schott FOSTEC are the same,, Schott bought the company. Schott Illuminators are very high quality but always more expensive and much harder to find light guides inexpensively and the connection between the illuminator and guide is more expensive and robust and non substituteable. They are made in Germany and correspondingly more expensive and much less available on ebay.
There is a swiss maker Volpi whose products are swiss quality.
There is a Boston area maker Dolan Jenner also widely available and reasonably priced. They were probably the very first on the market back in the day.
There is also a US company called Chiu which has an illuminator called the Lumina. This was sold under many different liveries and there are two FOSTECs shown on ebay right now that are really Chiu's . Maybe Schott bought them too.
These things last a very long time. The only things that wear out are 1) the bulb. Higher color temp = shorter bulb life hours 2) the receptacle that the bulb plugs into is an expendable item. It needs to be replaced every X number of bulbs because the pins of the bulbs are so hot that they oxidize and draw the temper of the initially springey contacts. 3) The cooling fans have a tendency to wear out in thousands of hours of use. This is not as common as "2" and the fans are easy and cheap to replace.
A lamp head with an iris diaphragm is generally desireable but raises the price. So is DC regulation of the filament. For the latter FOSTEC has an optical feed back module.
Illuminator Quality
g4lab,
Thanks for the multitude of sources and background information. The manufacturers you mentioned are quality, but quality costs $$$. I have to either take a shot on the Amscope or just bite the bullet and get the Dolan Jenner.....thanks, you gave me somrthings to chew on.
Dan
Thanks for the multitude of sources and background information. The manufacturers you mentioned are quality, but quality costs $$$. I have to either take a shot on the Amscope or just bite the bullet and get the Dolan Jenner.....thanks, you gave me somrthings to chew on.
Dan
Danny B
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rjlittlefield
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Dan, the particular FOSTEC unit that g4lab linked on eBay is showing a Buy-It-Now price that is lower than what I see on the AmScope site. I have no experience with that particular illuminator. I did, several years ago, buy a no-name illuminator new from eBay from a different vendor, and discovered when it came that the fan didn't run and a couple of the fittings were the sleaziest I had ever seen. (See HERE for amusement.) That said, the fan problem was just a loose connection, all the other fittings seem to be fine, and the thing has served me well for 5 years now without even blowing its original bulb. 
It's not an easy call, but if I had to do it again I'd be inclined to follow g4lab's advice.
--Rik
It's not an easy call, but if I had to do it again I'd be inclined to follow g4lab's advice.
--Rik
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ChrisLilley
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If you are in Europe you can search for Euro versions of Volpi, Scholly, and Schott illuminators. The only FOSTEC that is good over there is the DCRII and III (they may have a IV now) These have autoswitching power supplies with IEC plugs.
I have a German Schott illuminator here that goes with a Zeiss Darkfield base for stereo and it is only for 120volt But it is a slighly earlier model. All the earlier model German Schott were single voltage with transformers.
I had occasion to sell one to a Brit living in the US and I looked inside and it was not evident that it was able to be rewired.(model KL1500e)
iirc the current KL 1500lcd and KL2500lcd both run on any voltage.
I have a German Schott illuminator here that goes with a Zeiss Darkfield base for stereo and it is only for 120volt But it is a slighly earlier model. All the earlier model German Schott were single voltage with transformers.
I had occasion to sell one to a Brit living in the US and I looked inside and it was not evident that it was able to be rewired.(model KL1500e)
iirc the current KL 1500lcd and KL2500lcd both run on any voltage.
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Charles Krebs
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Gene has given good advice.
The only thing I might add is that I have experienced some FO illuminators that do not have IR filters between the bulb and the light guide holder. Others, such as the Volpi models I now use, have very nice IR filters in place. The difference in heat directed to the end of the light guide is tremendous. To the point that I have noticed a "browning" the the guide end and even a slight burning odor when the IR filter is not present. I don't use those illuminators any more, except in one case where I have added a filter myself.
The only thing I might add is that I have experienced some FO illuminators that do not have IR filters between the bulb and the light guide holder. Others, such as the Volpi models I now use, have very nice IR filters in place. The difference in heat directed to the end of the light guide is tremendous. To the point that I have noticed a "browning" the the guide end and even a slight burning odor when the IR filter is not present. I don't use those illuminators any more, except in one case where I have added a filter myself.
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Peter M. Macdonald
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Chris,
I can recommend the Leica FO lights which run on UK mains. I have had a second hand one for about three years now. Though tempting fate, it is still on the original bulb.
One sold on ebay uk last week, without light guides, for about £35. As it was only a few miles away from me, I was almost tempted to get it as a backup, as I could easily have picked it up post free.
They seem to have a good IR filter, as there is no noticeable heat at the tip of the guides.
Peter
I can recommend the Leica FO lights which run on UK mains. I have had a second hand one for about three years now. Though tempting fate, it is still on the original bulb.
One sold on ebay uk last week, without light guides, for about £35. As it was only a few miles away from me, I was almost tempted to get it as a backup, as I could easily have picked it up post free.
They seem to have a good IR filter, as there is no noticeable heat at the tip of the guides.
Peter
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Charles Krebs
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Charles makes a good point about IR filters. Most of the better brands come with them. Some of the older Dolan Jenner's might not.
That said the fibers themselves attenuate the IR pretty well. A Volpi applications rep I once knew used to brag that you could put a chocolate under one of their light guides and it would not melt. He of course WAS a swiss national.
Even if the ends scorch a bit it may not damage the fiber too much.
The glass fibers are not bothered by the heat. (which can be pretty darn hot)
What scorches is the epoxy holding the bundle ends together.
If you do land one without an IR filter it is easy to acquire one on fleabay and would be well to put in place. They have them at Edmund , probably at surplus shed and also from Omega Bob Johnson the owner of Omega filters in Vermont who sells lots of stuff on ebay all the time.
That said the fibers themselves attenuate the IR pretty well. A Volpi applications rep I once knew used to brag that you could put a chocolate under one of their light guides and it would not melt. He of course WAS a swiss national.
Even if the ends scorch a bit it may not damage the fiber too much.
The glass fibers are not bothered by the heat. (which can be pretty darn hot)
What scorches is the epoxy holding the bundle ends together.
If you do land one without an IR filter it is easy to acquire one on fleabay and would be well to put in place. They have them at Edmund , probably at surplus shed and also from Omega Bob Johnson the owner of Omega filters in Vermont who sells lots of stuff on ebay all the time.
I think Gene's recommendation of a Schott-Fostec illuminator--at least for the U.S. market--is very wise. My own Schott-Fostec illuminator is first rate, and there are a wide variety of fiber-optic light guides available for it. One of my collaborators lent me a Dolan Jenner unit, and it seems like junk in comparison with my Schott-Fostec. In particular, this Dolan Jenner has no IR filter (which I could of course add), the fan is much louder, and the build quality is poorer.
Also, I'd think twice about purchasing a unit with those "obedient" light guides, such as are illustrated for the AmScope. In reality, such guides are anything but obedient--they are extremely frustrating. I have a such pair, and absolutely hate them, so they mostly sit on the shelf unused. That said, I have a nice collection of Noga stands that permit me to place more flexible light guides with high precision and low effort.
Best regards,
--Chris
Also, I'd think twice about purchasing a unit with those "obedient" light guides, such as are illustrated for the AmScope. In reality, such guides are anything but obedient--they are extremely frustrating. I have a such pair, and absolutely hate them, so they mostly sit on the shelf unused. That said, I have a nice collection of Noga stands that permit me to place more flexible light guides with high precision and low effort.
Best regards,
--Chris
A very informative discussion. Such a light source looks pretty interesting, particularly the ring light attachments that seem to be available.
Since I know absolutely nothing about these, I'd like to ask if the light guides themselves need to be from the same company as the light source itself? The reason I'm asking is that I'm seeing several units sold on eBay without any light guides, so was wondering how to make sure that the light guides match.
Also, these all seem to use standard halogen bulbs, right?
Thanks for everyone's patience with newbies like me
Since I know absolutely nothing about these, I'd like to ask if the light guides themselves need to be from the same company as the light source itself? The reason I'm asking is that I'm seeing several units sold on eBay without any light guides, so was wondering how to make sure that the light guides match.
Also, these all seem to use standard halogen bulbs, right?
Thanks for everyone's patience with newbies like me
I would like to second Chris S' motion about obedient light guides. I hate them too. The limp ones, with a rigid holder are a much better idea. The obedients probably sounded like a good idea, but they keep moving after you place them.
In fairness to Dolan Jenner, the junky one you are talking about, is very likely the first one on the market, period! They have newer models, that are as good as anyones. If the fan is noisy it probably just needs replacement, or oiling with heavier oil, because of wear. Fans are easy and cheap to replace. You can buy a better one ( From Pabst in chermany for example) for less vibration and noise. They are easy to add IR filters to, even the oldest models.
A big majority of these instruments use 20-21 volt 150 watt bulbs DDL , EKE, EJA and EJN with corresponding variations in color temp and bulbhours life.
Sometimes there are different screw holes, to place the bulb mount in reflecting the difference in focal length of the bulb reflector.
The Europeans like German Schott and Volpi utilize an Osram or Phillips 15 volt 150 watt bulb, the code of which I don't have memorized. This would be a higher current and sturdier filament.
But I don't see any real difference.
Schott does have one, hard to find used, model(KL2500) that uses a 250 watt quartz halogen lamp. That is the most powerful one I know of.
If you need more light than that PM me and I will sell you for the price of shipping an arc lamp surgical illuminator. (300 watts AND higher lumen efficacy than incandescent)
I have been meaning to try to mix and match lightguides and illuminators from my collection to see which are interchangeable. But iirc the size FOSTEC uses also works with Volpi and Dolan Jenner have a system of economically priced adapters that will fit almost anybodys light guide.
There are some surgical illuminators , intended for headlights and endoscopes, which have a jacobs chuck-like gadget, that will bite any fiber optic end, up to about 13mm diameter. I have not seen these on any non medical illuminators, but if somebody wanted one of those, I have various ones that would be available. Another nice, but not really necessary feature (for us), is that in the interest of not interrupting surgery, some of the surgical ones, have turrets or levers, you operate which allow an instant bulb change. I even have an arc lamp unit that does that .
Gene
In fairness to Dolan Jenner, the junky one you are talking about, is very likely the first one on the market, period! They have newer models, that are as good as anyones. If the fan is noisy it probably just needs replacement, or oiling with heavier oil, because of wear. Fans are easy and cheap to replace. You can buy a better one ( From Pabst in chermany for example) for less vibration and noise. They are easy to add IR filters to, even the oldest models.
A big majority of these instruments use 20-21 volt 150 watt bulbs DDL , EKE, EJA and EJN with corresponding variations in color temp and bulbhours life.
Sometimes there are different screw holes, to place the bulb mount in reflecting the difference in focal length of the bulb reflector.
The Europeans like German Schott and Volpi utilize an Osram or Phillips 15 volt 150 watt bulb, the code of which I don't have memorized. This would be a higher current and sturdier filament.
But I don't see any real difference.
Schott does have one, hard to find used, model(KL2500) that uses a 250 watt quartz halogen lamp. That is the most powerful one I know of.
If you need more light than that PM me and I will sell you for the price of shipping an arc lamp surgical illuminator. (300 watts AND higher lumen efficacy than incandescent)
I have been meaning to try to mix and match lightguides and illuminators from my collection to see which are interchangeable. But iirc the size FOSTEC uses also works with Volpi and Dolan Jenner have a system of economically priced adapters that will fit almost anybodys light guide.
There are some surgical illuminators , intended for headlights and endoscopes, which have a jacobs chuck-like gadget, that will bite any fiber optic end, up to about 13mm diameter. I have not seen these on any non medical illuminators, but if somebody wanted one of those, I have various ones that would be available. Another nice, but not really necessary feature (for us), is that in the interest of not interrupting surgery, some of the surgical ones, have turrets or levers, you operate which allow an instant bulb change. I even have an arc lamp unit that does that .
Gene