Advice Needed

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

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dhmiller
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Advice Needed

Post by dhmiller »

I've got a set of Mitutoyo objectives that I use with an adapter on my DSLR when I am stacking (most often bugs). I'd like to be able to use those same objectives with a trinoc microscope so I can photograph crystalized chemicals under polarized light... my current Motic POL 310 does a nice job, but the objectives are not APO and the MItys are just sitting there looking pretty....

I have an old Olympus trinoc metallurgy scope that has been adapted for Mitutoyo threads and has a nice long working distance, so all (5x - 100x) fit nicely and focus properly. But the Olympus has no light source of any kind and the micrometers (also Mitutoyo) need some repairs...

The question is this - should I look for another used scope that would work with the Mitys and has working illumination, and if so, how does one tell if they would be compatible, or continue to mod the heck out of the old Olympus. My two main priorities are to have both transmitted light for the crystals and reflected light for bugs, so a lighting rig for the Olympus could get pricey.

Thanks for any advice.

FotoChris
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by FotoChris »

If all you want is polarised light, that doesn't require a microscope. All you need is sheet of polarising filter - and if you want to go the fancy pants way you could add a circular polariser after the tube lens to control the degree of polarisation.

dhmiller
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by dhmiller »

"polarised light"
Thanks for the note. Well, not quite that simple. I want to set up the Olympus for a variety of tasks that include polarized light for the crystals and reflected light for other subjects. So I'm trying to determine if it will be more expensive to mod the Olympus properly or to look into getting a new used scope. And if the answer is get a new scope, then I need to know how I can tell if the Mitys would work on it.
Thanks again.

FotoChris
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by FotoChris »

dhmiller wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:17 am
"polarised light"
Thanks for the note. Well, not quite that simple. I want to set up the Olympus for a variety of tasks that include polarized light for the crystals and reflected light for other subjects. So I'm trying to determine if it will be more expensive to mod the Olympus properly or to look into getting a new used scope. And if the answer is get a new scope, then I need to know how I can tell if the Mitys would work on it.
Thanks again.
Ah sorry, I though you meant to say that your Mitutoyo setup as of right now consists of a DSLR with adapters - I misinterpreted your post.
Though in both cases it would be rather simple to retrofit the Olympus with a new light source with a polariser (something like a LED with good CRI values) and add a clean piece of polariser behind the tube lens or between the Mitutoyo and tube lens or build an adapter to slip over the front of the Mitutoyo.
you could control the degree of polarisation by turning the polariser on the light source.
You could also use the same light source for transmitted and reflected light as well.

dhmiller
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by dhmiller »

Thanks, Chris. For the crystalized/polarized chemicals, I also need to get a retarder into the image train, as this gives me lots of options to adjust color. And darkfield is also really handy (as is EPI), but I don't know if I can manage all of those as well. Plus, I need the light source to be away from the subject to avoid heating the bugs or the crystals on the slide. So lots of considerations here. Still trying to determine how to know if the Mitys would work on a new (as yet undetermined) scope or if it is simply a matter of finding out how far the nose piece can travel away from the stage to match the needed working distance - I don't see that spec on any of the user scopes I have been looking at - and getting the the correct thread adapters for the mounts,,.,

Pau
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by Pau »

I must confess that I don't understand well your equipment nor your goals, maybe I'm too obtuse but I think that the info you provided is insufficient to give any useful advice.
- Please post clear pictures of your microscope including the episcopic illuminator
- Please provide more info about your subjects, magnification and goals
- I guess that your metallurgical microscope has incident light source but not transmitted light source. For crossed polarized transmitted observation of crystals you evidently need a light source under the slide, but the optical requirements are different of low mag/NA than for high mag/NA. For example, with a 4X/0.10 or a 10X/0.30 you likely will have good illumination just with a flat LED ceiling lamp (or panel) and a polarizer dropped over it while with a 40/0.75 you would need a proper illuminator and condenser
Pau

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by Scarodactyl »

It is my old Olympus STM measuring microscope--there was some unfortunate miscommunication on which features were essential and how it would be used (to be fair mitutoyos are a bit of an unusual choice to use primarily for looking at slides). It's a nice setup for oblique epi illumination, we didn't have much luck getting transmitted illumination set up removely so he's sending it back and I'm setting it up.
It actually already has a rotatable analyzer built in, a customized part I put together, so it should be pretty straightforward. I think we can get away with not using a condenser for the lower RI of mitutoyos but we will see.

There aren't many microscopes designed for this type of long parfocal objective. Mitutoyo's finescope series (fs50/60/70) are expensive and very rarely set up with a stand at all, much less for transmitted light. Name brand clones like Seiwa superscopes and Motic psm-1000s are not much cheaper or more common. You can buy new more generic clones from China but they're very expensive. Usually the best option is a measuring microscope but they almost always have to be customized to take the right head and objectives.

Chris S.
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by Chris S. »

Dennis and Scarodactyl,

If this is the stand I saw portions of, it is a solid setup and should be very good for Dennis' current purpose--perhaps after some illumination tweaks. If it is this stand, I hard-mounted a stepper motor on its BHMJ focus block.

Dennis, with that excellent Mitty glass you have, and this good stand, there is no reason you should start from scratch with a new microscope stand and new lenses--plus the need to motorize the new stand if you wanted to focus stack. (Dennis had a Micromate, which was not working well for him.)

Adding or tweaking lighting capabilities to what you have is relatively trivial.

--Chris S.

dhmiller
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by dhmiller »

Thanks much, Chris.
"If this is the stand I saw portions of ..."

Indeed it is. As he noted, Scarodactyl has offered to help with the modifications. My question was/is whether I can get this scope to the point I would like it for the variety of purposes I'm hoping for, which include polarized light, ideally with a wave plate, both transmitted and reflected light, some needed adjustments to the micrometers, etc. and for what cost and effort. I was only considering an alternative to going this route if there were a viable one, but apparently there is not. So that is how I plan to proceed - we shall see what can be done with the thing. ;-). I'll keep you posted if your interested, then contact you privately for some needed tweaks to the fine motorized focuser you installed (and hope you're doing well).

dhmiller
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Re: Advice Needed

Post by dhmiller »

Thanks for your note, Pau and for the helpful information. As noted elsewhere, Scarodactyl is going to see what can be done regarding my goals for the scope when he has a look at it shortly. I appreciate your input.

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