Recommendations on Nikon Z50 and going from Nikon to Canon Remote

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dolmadis
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Recommendations on Nikon Z50 and going from Nikon to Canon Remote

Post by dolmadis »

Hi Everyone

In need of some advice please. I am not a Nikon camera user. No reason not to have done so up till now though. 

I have an electronic board based application which is configured for a Nikon trigger shutter release and it seems pragmatic to continue with Nikon rather than re-configure/convert. Particularly when electronics is not a forte !! (Unless someone knows a quick conversion from Nikon to say, Canon).

I just want a Nikon body with a reasonable sensor resolution for direct projection from an Optiphot stand (ironically Nikon) . Electronic shutter for sure. Not format dependent. But cost may influence.

But price/value for money for purpose is a high priority as it is sort of a distress purchase.  

Second Hand/Used with a warranty OK.

Thank you so much for all inputs, suggestions, recommendations particularly on areas here where I have goofed!!

Best, John
Last edited by dolmadis on Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

dolmadis
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Re: Recommendations please Nikon Electronic Shutter Body

Post by dolmadis »

Hi

Would you have any pointers to say avoid a Nikon Z50 Digital Camera Body?

Best, John

Chris S.
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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by Chris S. »

John,

I haven't had a Nikon Z50 in hand, but have been immersed in the Nikon world for decades, so I'll take a shot. I can't see any reason to avoid the Z50 if its specifications meet your needs. That is, if the Nikon APS-C sensor size (23.5 mm x 15.7 mm) is a good fit for your microscope setup, and if you're happy with 20.9 megapixel resolution. For the shutter, Nikon says that this camera body has "Electronically-controlled vertical-travel focal-plane mechanical shutter; electronic front-curtain shutter; electronic shutter." So I'd imagine you'd choose one of the latter two shutter modes.

On my macro rig, I used an older Nikon D7100 body, and have thought about replacing it with a Z50. The advantage to me would be the electronic or partially-electronic shutter modes, which would let me avoid the workaround I use for eliminating the shutter shock from the D7100's mechanical (only) shutter. The disadvantage would be the drop from the D7100's 24 megapixels to the Z50's 21 megapixels. Admittedly, this is not a very significant loss in most applications, but it bugs me; I'd gladly take 150 megapixels in an APC-S body, and for my use case, Nikon is going in the wrong direction for this specification on this sensor format.

A little history of Nikon: In my experience, there is a big ergonomic difference between Nikon camera bodies marketed for amateurs and camera bodies marketed to professionals and "pro-sumers." The latter are a joy to use; the former, frustratingly clunky. But ergonomics aside, cheap and expensive Nikon bodies can produce exactly the same images. With a camera mounted on a microscope, ergonomics rarely matter--the camera is just a light-tight box containing a sensor, plus a shutter, and a processor that sends the output of the sensor to your computer. So your use case would argue strongly against more expensive Nikon bodies.

As an example, in 2006, I bought my first digital SLR, and my dad bought his first also. Mine was a prosumer-level Nikon D200, my dad's an amateur-level D40x. Both cameras contained the exact same sensor. Whenever my dad would ask me to help him with a shot, I'd usually wrestle with his camera for a while, grumble about needing a "real camera," and go get mine. The D40x's viewfinder was comparatively poor, and the body lacked some of the adjustment dials I regularly used to take control. But on a microscope, the D40x and the D200 would have been functionally equal.

So I think that if the Nikon Z50's spec's work for you, there is no reason not to get one.

This said, it appears that you already have a Canon body that would work--if only your electronic control board would actuate it. I think you could save a lot of money and trouble making your Canon body and this board get along. I take your point that you're not into electronics. But to anyone who is into electronics, this is probably not a difficult project. Maybe you could pay someone on your side of the pond to make you an adapter, and end up spending much less than you would pay for a Nikon Z50?

--Chris S.

dolmadis
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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by dolmadis »

Chris S. wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:39 pm

So I think that if the Nikon Z50's spec's work for you, there is no reason not to get one.

This said, it appears that you already have a Canon body that would work--if only your electronic control board would actuate it. I think you could save a lot of money and trouble making your Canon body and this board get along. I take your point that you're not into electronics. But to anyone who is into electronics, this is probably not a difficult project. Maybe you could pay someone on your side of the pond to make you an adapter, and end up spending much less than you would pay for a Nikon Z50?

--Chris S.
Hi Chris

Thank you for your helpful, informative and supportive reply.

So I decided to check out the spec on the Z50 and particularly remote shutter cabling.

I should have checked it more throughly the first time round because it does not have that port as far as I can see. I will continue to Google later.

I will be talking to a friend about using a Canon cable in lieu of a Nikon to the board.

Thanks again. Very much so.

John

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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by Chris S. »

dolmadis wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 am
So I decided to check out the spec on the Z50 and particularly remote shutter cabling. . . . it does not have that port as far as I can see. I will continue to Google later.
Ack! Good catch, John. I'm chagrined that I didn't notice this myself. But I'd never imagined that Nikon would leave out something so fundamental as a remote port in a camera otherwise well equipped--no Nikon body I've ever handled has omitted this basic standard. (Nikon does have a history of doing things that frustrate even those of us who use and like its products--but the good things about Nikon cause us to put up with the omissions.)

Thom Hogan has a review of the remote options for the Nikon Z-series. From this, I see that the Z50 has bluetooth remote capability only. This would seem useful in lots of situations, and apparently can be triggered by a smartphone. But hooking a Z50 to a board-driven device would require that the board be augmented with bluetooth--a far from impossible undertaking for a tinkerer, but a hassle for everyone else. Ugh.
I will be talking to a friend about using a Canon cable in lieu of a Nikon to the board.
Great! I bet it will work. Good luck with this, John.

--Chris S.

dolmadis
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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by dolmadis »

Hi Again Chris

I was surprised too. The later Z versions have this dedicated function but the used price with warranty puts a substitution into uneconomic territory.

After Googling I also have hopes of using my Canon on the board.

I found two very useful references to Remote Shutter Release Cables. These were quite readable for someone without a sound background in electronics.
https://www.instructables.com/Automatic ... er-Switch/ and http://www.doc-diy.net/photo/remote_pinout/
 
"If you are fortunate enough to have a camera that has a built-in shutter switch terminal, then it is really easy to connect an external circuit to your camera and activate it remotely. All you need is a connector that matches the terminal on your camera. Different camera models use different connectors. So here is a link to a good page that shows the various connector types: http://www.doc-diy.net/photo/remote_pinout/ "

The inference I have gathered is that the shorting method of actuation is universal. (But I am not sure about universal as I expect there are exceptions).

My hesitation and concern about just plugging in the Canon Cable to the board (no I will not !!) are the additional references to a 3/3.3 voltage on the Nikon and likewise on the Canon.

I have not managed to get information side by side as it were to prove that they are configured the same way on the voltage and shorting.

I hope that I have not diverged too far from the subject of my original post.

Best, John

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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by RobertOToole »

dolmadis wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:05 am
Hi Everyone

In need of some advice please. I am not a Nikon camera user. No reason not to have done so up till now though. ......
The Z50 is 20 Mp? If you are posting online that works but if you want to printing?

Wait, Z50 is APS-C? Okay thats better! 4.2 µm shouldn't be bad at all.

So it uses the D500 sensor! I know that sensor. How much are these? :-k



Best,

Robert

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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by RobertOToole »

dolmadis wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:05 am
Hi Everyone

In need of some advice please. ....
Good news:

Manual from Nikon's website.

https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/ ... /Z_50.html

Z50 has focus peaking!

The Z50's manual describes function "d9: peaking highlights"

When focus peaking is enabled in manual focus mode, objects that are in focus are indicated by colored outlines in the display. Choose the peaking level and outline color.

• Peaking level: Choose from

3 (high sensitivity),

2 (standard),

1 (low sensitivity),

and Off; the higher the value, the greater the depth that will be shown as being in focus.

• Peaking highlight color: Choose the highlight color.

Pau
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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by Pau »

dolmadis wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:05 am
I have an electronic board based application which is configured for a Nikon trigger shutter release and it seems pragmatic to continue with Nikon rather than re-configure/convert. Particularly when electronics is not a forte !! (Unless someone knows a quick conversion from Nikon to say, Canon).
Not 100% sure to understand the question but please allow me to post my naif opinion (no electronics skills by my side)

If a Canon camera suit your needs I guess that you just need to know the pins function and the to convert it.
I use a Wemacro stepper and its box has the same connector* for all cameras, just the cable changes so I think that only the camera side connector is different
* for a small headphone jack
Pau

chris_ma
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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by chris_ma »

Pau wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:39 am
If a Canon camera suit your needs I guess that you just need to know the pins function and the to convert it.
I use a Wemacro stepper and its box has the same connector* for all cameras, just the cable changes so I think that only the camera side connector is different
* for a small headphone jack
I don't know about the Z50 in particular, but I looked into triggering other cameras and there often there are some resistors involved as well. these are usually different from series to series.

I agree that it usually is the better approach to choose the camera based on your needs first and adapt the surrounding parts to that, getting help if necessary.
often people on this forum can assist if given enough information.
chris

dolmadis
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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by dolmadis »

Thank you so much to everyone who has looked at my post.  All suggestions are welcome. Perhaps I can give a recap on where I am and what the remaining issue is. 

I take the point about giving the fullest details.

Of the Z series I thought that I could get a body at a reasonable price based on used with warranty.

Unfortunately there is no cable based remote trigger facility. The other Z's are just too expensive as a simple solution.

So what I have is a board where the optocoupler has a 3.5mm female jack socket which is configured for Nikon remote cables.

So I do not have a suitable Nikon body and I will not be getting one for the reasons noted above.

I wish to connect a Canon body to the board instead.

My camera is a Canon M6 Mk2

The Canon RS-60E3 hand held Remote Control is recommended by Canon for M6 Mark II (link - https://store.canon.co.uk/canon-rs-60e3 ... /2469A002/)

The following link lists Camera remotes release pinouts for many camera systems including the RS-60E3.

https://www.doc-diy.net/photo/remote_pinout/ (there are no extra components in either Nikon or Canon cables)

I have a cable from Wemacro for the camera which has a 2.5mm jack at each end.

I have no wish to just get a 2.5 to 3.5 adapter and just see what happens so I spent some time yesterday on Google to come up with a safer, more cautious plan.

I propose to purchase a Nikon Remote cable noting that despite the differences in connectors between camera body versions that the wiring configuration of shutter actuation is the same cable to cable.

I propose to cut off the Nikon Connector at one end and pull back the wiring.

I read the following method of discovery on a useful website (I have mislaid the source URL) and I made a note of this so that I can discover if the Nikon configuration is the same as Canon. 

"NOTE: Your wire coloring may differ from this example. You can identify which functions are controlled by each cable by connecting the cable to your camera, powering it on and then shorting the cables in pairs to identify which pair does what. For example, if you have a GREEN, BLUE and BLACK set of wires and shorting BLUE and BLACK results in the camera focusing, and then you short the GREEN AND BLUE wires and nothing happens but shorting the GREEN AND BLACK results in the camera exposing, then you know that the BLACK wire is ground, GREEN is shutter and BLUE is focus."

When I have the results of that analysis I hope that Nikon and Canon coincide but if not I will at least know more to ask more questions !!

Input,thoughts,advice are very welcome.

Best, John

chris_ma
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Re: Recommendations please now for or against nikon Z50

Post by chris_ma »

dolmadis wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:29 am
So what I have is a board where the optocoupler has a 3.5mm female jack socket which is configured for Nikon remote cables.
...
My camera is a Canon M6 Mk2
The Canon RS-60E3 hand held Remote Control is recommended by Canon for M6 Mark II
the RS-60E3 pinout looks is very simple.

since the nikons don't seem to have a 3.5pin connector, I guess your board was made for an adapter cable, but from the pinouts listed on doc-diy, they all seem to be simple as well.
so it's very likely that all you need to do is which contacts are used in the 3.5mm plug of your board, and then wire that up to a 3.5mm male to 2.5mm male connector.

to find out the pins on the board, you either need the board schematics, or something to measure a short contact.
you could also just try what works because there's not many combination, but I'm always a bit careful with that because in worst case something could be damaged (not likely in this case but I'm not a trained electrician either).

edit: of course if you have the cable that was used to connect the 3.5mm on the board to the nikon body then it would be possible to find the pin out from that.
chris

dolmadis
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Substituting Nikon Remote Cable for Canon EOS

Post by dolmadis »

chris_ma wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:59 am

edit: of course if you have the cable that was used to connect the 3.5mm on the board to the nikon body then it would be possible to find the pin out from that.
My preference will be examination instead of experimentation given that there is always risk. The Nikon cable I have selected for price does have a 2.5mm jack and a Nikon specific connector to the camera. The pin out from one end of the cable to the other will be identical. So I agree, that if I can shift the 2.5mm jack casing I will be able to examine to discover the wire colours that are attached where in the jack. That would enable me then to cut off the Nikon connector and wire the replacement 3.5mm jack in the same way thus matching the configuration of the female socket on the optocoupler.

I have ordered the parts. I hope it is successful. But it will still be an experiment when I connect to the Canon, fingers crossed.

But I wonder if those amongst our members who are skilled in electronics could have suggested another way? If so I am still very interested to learn.

Best, John
Last edited by dolmadis on Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

dolmadis
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Substituting Nikon Remote Cable for Canon EOS - Pin Outs

Post by dolmadis »

Update

I couldn't push back the 2.5mm jack shell to expose the pin out on the Nikon specimen cable because it was hard moulded.

And I was not that keen on exposing the wiring on the other end and shorting combinations to find out wire functions.

So a bit more time searching on Google helped out.

I have since determined from two very useful links that whilst Nikon remote cables end in Nikon specific connectors and cables for many Canon EOS models end in a 2.5mm jack the pin out is identical.

https://www.doc-diy.net/photo/eos_wired_remote/ - note the pin out diagram for Canon EOS

and

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/ ... t-29882276 - note the links in the first post to the two photos which identify the pin out for Nikon

I hope that this delving may help others in future saving from having to risk the shorting discovery process I found.

Best, John

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