Microscope for crystal photography advice

Starting out in microscopy? Post images and ask questions relating to the microscope and get answers from our more advanced users on the subject.

Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau

phil_H
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:50 am
Location: Grimsby

Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by phil_H »

Hi All
I have been taking images for a number of years using a Wemarco stacking rail and various lens and Objective up to 20x magnification, mainly insects. I would now like to photograph crystal structures of which I have seen some beautiful examples on this forum. I understand that I need a microscope with polarising filters?. My budget is about £1000, I have looked at the Brunel SP150, but would welcome any advice on recommended microscopes and anything else I may need.
Many thanks
Phil

Lou Jost
Posts: 5933
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by Lou Jost »

I am curious why you feel that you need something more than what you already have?

Scarodactyl
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:26 am

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by Scarodactyl »

Probably looking for transmitted light, a rotating stage and polarizers/filters.
Full petrographic microscopes are expensive, well beyond the cost of their components. I have heard it said geologists cling tighter to their microscopes than anyone in biology, which tracks (given lower budgets and lack of relevance of game-changing developments like fluorescence and confocal over in biology). Point is, used ones are scsrce and starving geologists apparently roam the land, snapping up whatever they can find used. I have a masters in geology and still haven't gotten a proper petrographic scope for myself, they're just too expensive. You might find adding these features to your rail setup is a lot cheaper assuming you don't need eyepieces for viewing or more analytical featires like a bertrand lens.

Lou Jost
Posts: 5933
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by Lou Jost »

Probably looking for transmitted light, a rotating stage and polarizers/filters.
You might find adding these features to your rail setup is a lot cheaper assuming you don't need eyepieces for viewing or more analytical featires like a bertrand lens.
Yes, that's what I think too. You don't need a microscope for that. Many of us use polarization and transmitted or reflected polarized and cross-polarized light with a rail. In fact a rail system is in some ways more flexible than a microscope, and certainly cheaper if you already have the rail. Alternatively you can motorize an old microscope focusing stage using a WeMacro MicroMate.

phil_H
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:50 am
Location: Grimsby

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by phil_H »

Hi All
I might not have made myself clear on what I am looking for as I am new to this world. I would like to grow crystal structures (ie citric acid etc) on slides and then photograph the patterns, also I would like to take photographs of plant cells, if it is possible to do it with my existing equipment I would be interested in any advice.
Regards
Phil

ChrisR
Site Admin
Posts: 8662
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:58 am
Location: Near London, UK

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by ChrisR »

For biological use the SP150 looks like a sound choice. For higher magnifications, which you will probably want, you'll use the condenser and turret to swap objectives, which your rail is lacking. The "advanced" polarising kit which gives you a rotating lower pol would be the one to go for. The darkfield condenser would give you some options too.
Comparing with more expensive pol scopes it doesn't have the rotating analyser or stage, or provision for Wave Plates at the analyser position. You can fiddle about with pieces of material such as cellophane(CD wrap) in there, though.

That gives you plenty to play with. Some old scopes had modular construction so that with time, reseach and luck you can put together something which does everything but it's not easy, and there still compromises. From time to time, specialist old pol scopes come up at reasonable prices.
If you join the Quekett club, when times allow you can go to a meeting or two to discuss and see such things with folk who have taken the journey - or lots of journeys, filling their houses with the evidence.
Chris R

phil_H
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:50 am
Location: Grimsby

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by phil_H »

Hi All
If I purchased an Olympus BH-20 as shown in image what else would I need to photograph polarised crystal images.
Olympus.jpg
Phil

PeteM
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:06 am
Location: West Coast, USA

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by PeteM »

That's a very good scope. It looks to have DPlan objectives and those are good for photography up to the field limit of the usual Olympus trinocular photo relay lens and usually OK for simple polarization even without being selected and marked for Pol.

You'll need two polarizers (one of which is commonly called an analyzer); one to fit over the field aperture and the other to sit above the objectives. Olympus makes a dedicated intermediate piece to hold a polarizer that slides in and out. They seem to cost about $250 on Ebay for the intermediate piece and polarizer. Here's an example from US Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-BH2-KP ... Swq3pfF1qQ

With many microscopes it's possible to fit a thin polarizer between the head dovetail and the stand. For Olympus it's a bit too tight unless you are prepared to machine a recess. So I suggest the above part or its equivalent. It's entirely possible to machine or 3D print an intermediate piece - though likely best to just buy one given the time involved.

For the field placement you can use a camera polarizer of a suitable diameter, though many don't have quite as good extinction as the Olympus OEM part. if it is a circular rather than linear polarizer, you may have to reverse the direction to get it started. Worth a try to get started. A cheap camera polarizer might be $10; a bit more for a better extinction one. The OEM Olympus polarizer might take a while to find used at $100 or so.

It also isn't clear to me, from the picture, what condenser this BHS model came equipped with? I'll presume it is OK?

Fitting a camera is fairly straightforward - plenty of advice on the web. Hope you have great fun with this in the year ahead.

Alan Wood
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:09 pm
Location: Near London, U.K.
Contact:

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by Alan Wood »

Phil

Here are the simplest Olympus items, the A-POL polariser that sits on top of the light outlet (easy to rotate, easy to add a retarder on top of it), and the B-AN analyser that fits in the recess under the head:

olympus-polariser-analyser-700.jpg

Before I found the analyser, I used a disc cut from a piece of polarising film. It is included in this photo, together with camera polarising filters and a slide mount that can be used to hold a piece of plastic film that acts as a retarder:

polarisers-analyser-retarder-2-2017-polarised-700.jpg

ChrisR recommended Quekett meetings. We held a joint Zoom meeting with the Bournemouth Natural Science Society in July, and the report includes some information on polarised light microscopy, including my introductory PowerPoint just over half way down:

https://www.quekett.org/about/reports/2 ... uth-public

Alan Wood

phil_H
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:50 am
Location: Grimsby

Re: Microscope for crystal photography advice

Post by phil_H »

Hi Alan
Thank you for the information very helpful, I used to be a member of quekett a few years ago, but dropped out when I started do more photography so I may re-join again now.
I am still undecided on what to go for and may push the budget up to £2k. I like the look of the Brunel SP200 or 300 but unsure whether to go new or second-hand The Qlympus BH and CX look good but the accessories seem expensive.
Thanks
Phil

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic