Advice on attaching DSLR cam to a Carl Zeiss PrimoStar Trino

[logotip]

HI all.
I have a Carl Zeiss Primo Star trinocular microscope.

But do not have a DSLR camera and adapter for the microscope Primo Star.
I want to do microgfotos of tissues (histology) recommend what to buy adapter for this microscope and DSLR camera (Sony NEX or Canon 1100 or D650)?
Now I have only this microscope and adapter for CCD camera c-mount.
Which adapter to buy?
From olympus not work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-C-7070- ... 43b941b274
But the price is high ((((

As Example
http://www.juelich-bonn.com/jForum/read.php?11,419470

Thanks for the help

[Charles Krebs]

Adapter P95-T2 1.6x DSLR for Primo (D) for Primo

https://www.micro-shop.zeiss.com/?l=en& ... 0-1825-000

[logotip]

Charles Krebs Thanks,
I know about this adapter - is there an alternative to it?
The adapter must necessarily have optics ?

[Pau]

The first adapter you linked doesn't seem adequate because it is designed to fit an eyepiece tube and your photo port is different. 2X seems a bit too high magnification for APSC.

I don't have any experience with your scope, so please take my following words just as a guess:
Because I think that all the complementary optical corrections are done at the tube lens, a direct projection system (empty tube) may work well at 1X.
May be you can build it yourself with a set of extension tubes and a custom machined connector for the photoport.
First you need to locate the image plane heigh with a lensless SLR camera or just a frosted glass or similar and measure the distance from the the microscope end.
If you have enough distance as I think you can discount the flange focal distance of the camera (bajonet mount to sensor distance, with Canon EOS about 42mm) and figure how to couple the tube camera mount to the microscope photoport. A good suggestion may be a set of M42 extension tubes, a M42 focusing helicoid to get good parfocality, a chipped M42 to Canon (or NEX) adapter and...the photoport to m42 coupler.

But of course if your budget allows it the best option IMO will be the original Zeiss 1.6X adapter and a Canon EOS camera

[Charles Krebs]

My initial answer was abrupt and gave only the Zeiss solution. Naturally the Zeiss solution is not inexpensive (about $600). But quality "third party" solutions made by companies like Diagnostic Instruments or Martin Microscope will cost nearly the same (and in some cases even more).
http://www.spotimaging.com/accessories/ ... /dslr.html
http://www.martinmicroscope.com/MMSLR.htm
http://www.qioptiq.com/optem-large-format-series.html

I would go with the approach suggested by Pau. If there is adequate room to set up for direct imaging onto the camera sensor it is a great way to go. You should understand going into it that the objectives will probably not provide a large enough image to "cover" and APS-C sized sensor (27-29mm diagonal) out to the corners. So you will likely need to crop the image a little to eliminate the poorer edge/corner image. (Or you may get darkening, "vignetting" of the corners in the camera). This may not seem ideal, but with the high number of pixels on most APS-C camera these days, and the modest number of pixels actually needed for most microscope imaging it is really not a problem. If you are using 10X eyepieces the camera will record a larger field than you see, so you are only cropping down to what you were observing. Such an arrangement will require a little "do-it-yourself" skills, but is generally easy to accomplish if there us sufficient "room" above the trinocular port.

One other possibility (but something you will need to research) is that some Motic parts might fit your Primo Star. Motic makes the Primo Star for Zeiss. There might be a possibility that some of the camera adapters made for the Miotic BA310 or BA410 can be used on your Primo Star. Motic makes a camera tube that is used together with their 2.5X projection type photo-eyepiece. A 2.5X projection eyepiece is really intended for the 35mm format (24x36mm film/sensor) so many people feel it is too high a magnification for an APS-C sized sensor (about 1.3X to 1.6X is preferred). But if (and I emphasize again that I don't know) these parts do fit your Primo Star it might be a lower cost option.

[logotip]

Thank you for comments
Questions about the adapter:
wherefore in adapter use the optics (1.6, etc.)?
To completely fill a matrix camera picture? (exclude "vignetting")

I have a simple adapter for ccd camera - where in him is no optics.

Maybe buy bayonet a mount for dslr camera to attach it to this adapter.
What will be the result?

For example, will seem as:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-Microscop ... 3ccfa716b6


Questions about buying a camera to a microscope:
Which camera is better to buy for the microscope and for good microfoto?
Sony NEX or Canon 1100 or D650 = or old used Olympus C-7070 Camera???
Will there be a big difference in photo quality, depending which of these cameras to choose?

[Pau]

- If this adapter fits the microscope photo port you have a very good start point, in special if the tube sections can be unscrewed. You need to locate the image plane in order to define the camera position and how to couple it to the camera. Maybe even you're lucky enough to find some standard thread (M42x1, M42X0.75 = T mount,...) to fit a standard camera mount.

- 1.6X usually is the standard magnification to fit the rectangle image on APSC sensor inside a 20 or 18mm field eyepiece circle.

- About cameras the most convenient are Canon EOS (other than 60D and 1D series) with live view and newest Sony NEX models because both provide EFSC, ie vibration free image with continous illumination. Canon has another very useful function: it can be easily tethered to a computer via USB and you can visualize the live image and control the camera from the computer, and the sofware to do it is free with the camera.

[logotip]

This adapter versed - optics in it not.
If I add a few macro rings - I thus get an increase in 1.6x?

Sony NEX models EFSC and Does the function: it can be easily tethered to a computer via USB and you can visualize the live image and control the camera from the computer, and the sofware to do it is free with the camera.???
or only Canon has this?

[Pau]

This adapter versed - optics in it not.
If I add a few macro rings - I thus get an increase in 1.6x?

You will increase a little magnification but If you add extension you will lost parfocality with the eyepieces, a much more important goal (and may be induce some optical aberations). A 1.4X teleconverter mounted directly on the camera may do the job (1.4X would be nice), but I'm not sure at all if it would work well or you may have optical issues like flare or optical aberrations

Sony NEX models EFSC and Does the function: it can be easily tethered to a computer via USB and you can visualize the live image and control the camera from the computer, and the sofware to do it is free with the camera.???
or only Canon has this?

AFAIK only Canon EOS cameras have both features. New NEX have EFSC and many Nikons can tether (but buying the sofware and without EFSC)

[Charles Krebs]

logotip...

You should try the following first:

Get (borrow, rent) a Canon EOS SLR camera. (It can even be an older film model). It does not need to be the exact model you might eventually want for the microscope.

Put a high contrast subject on your microscope and focus through the microscope eyepieces. Once you have it in clear focus DO NOT CHANGE THE FOCUS.

Direct light to the trinocular port on the microscope.

Remove the lens from the SLR camera and hold it over the trinocular tube. Move the camera body up and down while looking through the camera viewfinder. See if it is possible to find a location (up/down) where the microscope image is in focus in the camera.

If it is possible to do this then you have the option of setting up for direct projection with either Canon bodies or Sony NEX bodies. (If you can't do this with a Canon EOS SLR, but it seems like you are getting close you may still be able to do it with a NEX camera body. The Canon EOS SLR body depth is 44mm and the Sony NEX body depth is only 18mm).

When we talk about "direct projection" there are no additional optics added in the trinocular tube or adapters. So not only will it be a low cost solution it will also be capable of the best quality.

Sony NEX or Canon 1100 or D650 = or old used Olympus C-7070 Camera???

The NEX and the Canon models you mention have removable lenses, and you would use only the camera body. They are suited for the methods we are talking about here. The C-7070 has a permanently attached lens and would require an entirely different method of attachment.

If I add a few macro rings - I thus get an increase in 1.6x?

No. That's not the way you set this up. First you get the microscope in accurate focus through the eyepieces. Then WITHOUT CHANGING THE MICROSCOPE FOCUS, you come up with a camera arrangement that has the camera in focus at the same time. This can be accomplished a variety of ways. With the "direct projection" method it is accomplished by adjusting the height of the camera body above the trinocular tube (no lens on camera) until the image is in focus in focus in the camera body. If you really want to provide the additional 1.3X to 1.6X into the camera body you will need to add additional optics to your camera adapter. (Or as Pau mentioned, you might be able to use a 1.4X "tele-converter").

[logotip]

Hi,
I borrow EOS SLR camera - nikon d3100

At first I tried to photograph through the eyepiece of the microscope with the hands.
Here is the result:

first photo blurred due to vibration of the camera shutter

The next picture is better (photographed few frames per second)


The following photos made by the camera body
through the port trinocular:
Shutter gives significant vibration - which in turn blurred photos.




We must make photos turn photo eyepiece - to get identical increase image that we see through the glasses and what we get in digital form

What then is the difference between this adapter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-SLR-DSLR- ... 2c6dac9bdb
and branded adapter trinocular

???

Maybe buy a kit......?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-C-7070- ... 43b941b274

What are the recommendations for the following steps?
interesting if I buy this adapter for microscope Primo Star - it will work?
http://www.promicra.com/adapters.php

[Pau]

Hi,
I borrow EOS SLR camera - nikon d3100

What camera did you used? In base of the file names it seems Nikon.

What then is the difference between this adapter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-SLR-DSLR- ... 2c6dac9bdb
and branded adapter trinocular
https://www.micro-shop.zeiss.com/index. ... a[m]=m1090

I think we previously discussed both adapters. The dedicated Zeiss one will be perfect and the Amscope one do need an eyepiece tube to work properly, different of your photo port.

Maybe buy a kit......?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-C-7070- ... 43b941b274

Again this adapter seems to need an eyepiece type photo tube (and seems more expensive than the Zeiss (but includes an old compact camera)

What are the recommendations for the following steps?
interesting if I buy this adapter for microscope Primo Star - it will work?
http://www.promicra.com/adapters.php

It seems only available for Olympus and no other specifications seem available. You will need to contact them to have more info.

The following photos made by the camera body
through the port trinocular:
Shutter gives significant vibration - which in turn blurred photos.

If they where taken while the microscope was properly focussed through the eyepieces, you have the right way to do direct projection, just need to make the adapter.
A camera with EFSC will avoid shutter induced vibration blur.

[logotip]

What camera did you used? In base of the file names it seems Nikon.

I used NIKON d3100 - in all cases

So it would be good to have a camera with EFSC. or maybe Sony NEX?

This adapter can make yourself - but must have photo eyepiece - to get a photo with the same increase as we sees through the oculars

[Charles Krebs]

This adapter can make yourself - but must have photo eyepiece - to get a photo with the same increase as we sees through the oculars

It sounds like you really want to use optics in the trinocular tube to enlarge the image in the camera to match the eyepieces. This is fine, but it will be more expensive and complicated than a "direct projection" arrangement, and the end quality will likely not be much better (and if the optics you use are not excellent it is possible they will not be as good.

But here is how you might do it. First you need to know what the field number is that you observe through the eyepieces. The PrimoStar brochure shows two possible eyepieces ... 10x/18 and 10x/20. The field numbers are close, but which ones are you using?

If you use an APS-C Canon the total magnification you want in the trinocular tube to the camera will be:
10X/18 eyepieces: 1.6X
10X/20 eyepieces: 1.4X

With a Nikon or NEX:
10X/18 eyepieces: 1.7X
10X/20 eyepieces: 1.5X

The Zeiss piece mentioned earlier provides a 1.6X. It has all the proper mechanical connections and will fit directly. The optics should be excellent.

The component you asked about here...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-SLR-DSLR- ... 2c6dac9bdb
... has a 2X optic built into it. This is a little too much to get everything you see through the eyepieces into the camera. You will record, in the camera, a slightly cropped section of what is observed. (You are observing a circular image of either 18 or 20mm diameter. With a 2X optic in the trinocular tube you will be recoding a rectangle with a diagonal of about 14mm. In practice this works out fine). I have no idea about the optical quality of the 2X optic in this piece.

I am aware of two projection style photoeyepieces in this range. The Olympus 1.67X NFK, but this has chromatic correction for a line of Olympus objectives so it will not match well to your microscope. And it costs (used) over $600.

Meiji makes a 1.9X (part # MA986). It costs about $200. This is just the eyepiece. You would need to make up the the mechanical tube and camera adaper. You might be able to make use of some of the Meiji components found here: http://www.meijitechno.com/camera_adapters.htm . They do not fit directly on your microscope but could possibly be adapted, and they don't cost that much.

Nikon makes (made?) a PLI 2X. Olympus makes (made?) a PE 2X. You rarely see these. These were made for their infinity optical systems and will be good quality. I am pretty sure that they have a larger barrel diameter than the "standard" ~23mm eyepiece barrel.

If you were to use the Meiji or the Ebay adapter (or Nikon PLI or Olympus PE) you would first need to build a tube onto the trinocular port of your microscope. This tubes length should be such that if you put one of your viewing eyepieces into it, it would show the subject in focus at the same time as it is in focus through the binoculars. Then The projection type photoeyepiece is put into this tube. (With the Ebay adapter you just insert the adapter into this tube and you are finished). If using one of the separate projection type eyepieces, then the camera body needs to be attached above the projection photoeyepiece at the proper distance. (A distance where the camera is in focus at the same time as the viewing eyepieces).

[logotip]

The PrimoStar brochure shows two possible eyepieces ... 10x/18 and 10x/20. The field numbers are close, but which ones are you using?

I have a microscope PrimoStar with 10X/20 eyepieces.
And I hav old adapter Lomo mfn
optic